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Esthetician & Skin Care Products > Medical Esthetician and Laser treatments

Hey. I have been licensed as an esthetician for about a year now and have recently branched into the medical area. Love it! Im used to working in a day spa...Aveda graduate..glad to be done with the whole cult thing. Im so excited to be working with medical grade skincare and working with medical devices. It makes me mad to get some of my clients stolen by the massage therapist or nail tech when it comes to laser treatments..i didnt know that these types of licenses covered laser procedures and it angers me. I mean what did i go to school for. I also hear that estheticians might not be able to work with lasers at all in the future..what the heck is up with that?! Thats my main concern..will estheticians be able to work with lasers in the future?

Dear Alex: I have checked the laws in many states - I am a lawyer and I have been a med spa owner as well - and I am not aware of ANY state that recognizes any type of esthetician or cosmetology license with respect to operating a medical device (such as a laser, RF or IPL device). No state authority I am aware of recognizes any such thing as a "medical esthetician". Nevertheless thousands of doctors nationwide are using estheticians to perform these procedures (I guess primarily because they have to pay nurses a higher wage). Every once in a while someone is brought before the authorities for the unlawful practice of medicine. Believe it or not-- operating one of these "prescription devices" is deemed to be the "practice of medicine" in most states. In some states violators can face substantial fines.

That being said, a couple states (Arizona, a few others and most recently Texas) have passed new laws opening up things a bit -- for non-medical people who meet the state's certification requirements-- but pretty much only for the performance of light based hair removal treatments. Be careful out there! You may be playing with "fire" (literally).

Thank you for your reply. I did not know that estheticians were not able to perform laser procedures. When I say medical devices I mean tatoo removal, skin rejuvenation, hair removal, microdermabrasion and other procedures similar to that. Are those procedures still legal to perform. Im almost positive that my license covers those procedures. I am also sure that massage therapists and nail technicians are not certified to perform those procedures. I guess what i was asking is if my license covers those procedures. I do work under a physician tho and I know that sometimes that can make a difference.

07.13 | Unregistered CommenterAlex Prins

Alex: The key is whether or not you are operating a MEDICAL LASER or other prescription device. You are OK using a microdermabrader-- those devices are "exempt". The law is not concerned with "procedures" per se but rather the modalities that the provider is using. Please-- do yourself and check with a local (licensed) attorney. In most states operating a laser constitutes "the practice of medicine". Ask yourself if you would dare to take out a scalpel and try to perform surgery on someone. Under the law of most states, both of these acts would be considered "the practice of medicine". Don't get lulled into this just because everyone else is doing it either. That excuse never holds up if someone decides to come after you.

I am in Portland Oregon and am researching the possibilities to become a Laser Licensed technician
In Oregon there is not one only Medical spa or clinic where is the doctor who performs the laser treatments, they are all performed by laser tech people
The only school I know that provides non medical people with the Laser tech license is the Arizona one
Does any one know if there is another school in Oregon or Washington state that might offer same schooling and license?
I also have read several job offers on Craigslit where they are looking for laser technician but the only requirement is the Oregon Aesthetic license, and not the LASER TECHNICIAN license
So my other question is:
Is it enough for me to take the Oregon aesthetic license in order to perform Laser treatments at a doctor's office or do I have to go to Arizona?
Thanks so much for any insight and advises
Anna

10.25 | Unregistered CommenterAnna

thermage is a radio frequency device ,can estheticians work with thermage?

01.20 | Unregistered CommenterIlmira

My opinion would be that you could be found to be illegally practicing medicine without a license -- even if a physician was acting as your medical director -- because the laws and regs in most states do not recognize "estheticians" as having any medical credentials. RF devices -- like laser, IPLs and ultrasound-- are prescription medical devices in all states.

Nonetheless -- as a practical matter it is the "wild wild west" out there and many non-medical personnel are performing lots of these treatments (of course there were several hundred thousand hippies smoking pot at Woodstock also).

From what I understand, specifically in the state of South Carolina where I am located, a physician can designate any qualified person to do laser hair removal as long as the physician a. is on premises, b. approves the candidate and the protocols, and c. covers the practitioner under his liability insurance. "Qualified" becomes the hot word in this case. The MD's liability insurance will frequently designate who is acceptable, and our insurers have approved my esthetics license plus my extra certification courses as acceptable for all delegated treatments. I do excellent laser work as we are a high-volume LHR practice and I have performed it for 8 hours a day, five days a week for the last two years. It surprised me at first when I realized how controversial this topic was, until I recalled all of the mistakes I've seen coming in from other clinics where they take any Joe off the streets, thrust a laser in their hands, and let them laser skin after a half-hour crash course. I also do IPL treatments, which do not necessitate the physician being on-premises. I wouldn't dare perform an ablative procedure such as Fraxel, or an invasive procedure such as dermal fillers. I do realize that the laser/light effects reach beyond the epidermis, which technically delineates my scope of practice, but I will continue to defend the rights of properly trained and certified estheticians to do non-ablative laser/light procedures under the guidance and supervision of a physician. My extensive roster of loyal clients would probably agree. :)

FOR FLORIDA- Can Estheticians perform Laser Tx (Laser Hair Removal, IPL, Vascular, etc) under a MD license and insurance? This is the question I/'ve been asking myself.. so here is the answer..

NO, NO, NO!!! I contact Dept of Business and Professional Regulations Cosmetology Departement and they could not give me an exact answer, they told me I have to call The Florida Department of Health, so I did after 15 minutes, I finally got someone they told me.. "Absolutely NOT, don't ever touch a laser, you have no idea how to use it, you have not been train" she said "A non-medical professional cannot fire the laser for hair removal in the state of Florida, you must get your Licensed Electrologist, you must take the CLS training and then report it to the FSEA, now the State of FLorida has allow RN, NP, or PA to work under the MD's license and insurance, but the MD has to be in the building.

Estheticians please be careful with this MD telling you that you can work under their license, Your license can be taking away, and you know how hard we work to get it.. They do this so they won't pay a license individual the money, is cheaper for them to just pay us the estheticians...

I was a fool and trusted a MD just because he's an MD!

Please be careful, it is playing with FIRE!

anadivineskin,

Great job on your research. There are so many that come on this site and ask this exact question and then rely on the answers posted from this site. I agree many of the posted answers are wrong. The only way to be sure is to do exactly what you did. Do the research and if you do not have a definite answer have a lawyer look into it for you.

I recently looked into an issue for my clinic and called the state board of medical examiners and others and could not get a direct answer. I then had my lawyer look into it and he was able to give me an answer with the state statute quoted. I had an absolute answer without any grey zone. He saved me thousands of dollars and cost me a couple of hundred dollars.

Remember each state has its own laws for laser use and even marketing. I was looking at referral program for clients but in my state it is illegal and I could have even lost my license if the board would have wanted to push it far enough. Be careful and make sure you get the right answers from the right people.

Awesome job anadivineskin!!!

07.15 | Unregistered CommenterLH

This So called "Attorney" is wrong
Aesthetics CAN use lasers in Illinois.
as long as they are guided by a doctor.
please feel free to look up the state laws
http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/WHO/esth.asp

09.10 | Unregistered CommenterSal

Dear "Sal": If the "so-called attorney" you have referenced is me (based on my comment dated July 10 above) I want to tell you that I am "really" an attorney AND that I have been involved in the aesthetics industry for over ten years. I suggest that YOU check the Illinois state regulations and laws pertaining to the practice of medicine (see 225 ILCS 60). You will find the following commentary relating to the delegation of certain acts deemed to be "the practice of medicine" to non-physicians. Then you can tell me where it says a non-medical person can operate a medical laser...

(Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2007)
Sec. 54.5. Physician delegation of authority.
(a) Physicians licensed to practice medicine in all its branches may delegate care and treatment responsibilities to a physician assistant under guidelines in accordance with the requirements of the Physician Assistant Practice Act of 1987. A physician licensed to practice medicine in all its branches may enter into supervising physician agreements with no more than 2 physician assistants.
(b) A physician licensed to practice medicine in all its branches in active clinical practice may collaborate with an advanced practice nurse in accordance with the requirements of Title 15 of the Nursing and Advanced Practice Nursing Act. Collaboration is for the purpose of providing medical direction, and no employment relationship is required. A written collaborative agreement shall conform to the requirements of Sections 15‑15 and 15‑20 of the Nursing and Advanced Practice Nursing Act. The written collaborative agreement shall be for services the collaborating physician generally provides to his or her patients in the normal course of clinical medical practice. Physician medical direction shall be adequate with respect to collaboration with certified nurse practitioners, certified nurse midwives, and clinical nurse specialists if a collaborating physician:
(1) participates in the joint formulation and joint
approval of orders or guidelines with the advanced practice nurse and periodically reviews such orders and the services provided patients under such orders in accordance with accepted standards of medical practice and advanced practice nursing practice;

(2) is on site at least once a month to provide
medical direction and consultation; and

(3) is available through telecommunications for
consultation on medical problems, complications, or emergencies or patient referral.

(b‑5) An anesthesiologist or physician licensed to practice medicine in all its branches may collaborate with a certified registered nurse anesthetist in accordance with Section 15‑25 of the Nursing and Advanced Practice Nursing Act. Medical direction for a certified registered nurse anesthetist shall be adequate if:
(1) an anesthesiologist or a physician participates
in the joint formulation and joint approval of orders or guidelines and periodically reviews such orders and the services provided patients under such orders; and

(2) for anesthesia services, the anesthesiologist or
physician participates through discussion of and agreement with the anesthesia plan and is physically present and available on the premises during the delivery of anesthesia services for diagnosis, consultation, and treatment of emergency medical conditions. Anesthesia services in a hospital shall be conducted in accordance with Section 10.7 of the Hospital Licensing Act and in an ambulatory surgical treatment center in accordance with Section 6.5 of the Ambulatory Surgical Treatment Center Act.

(b‑10) The anesthesiologist or operating physician must agree with the anesthesia plan prior to the delivery of services.

(c) The supervising physician shall have access to the medical records of all patients attended by a physician assistant. The collaborating physician shall have access to the medical records of all patients attended to by an advanced practice nurse.
(d) Nothing in this Act shall be construed to limit the delegation of tasks or duties by a physician licensed to practice medicine in all its branches to a licensed practical nurse, a registered professional nurse, or other personnel.
(e) A physician shall not be liable for the acts or omissions of a physician assistant or advanced practice nurse solely on the basis of having signed a supervision agreement or guidelines or a collaborative agreement, an order, a standing medical order, a standing delegation order, or other order or guideline authorizing a physician assistant or advanced practice nurse to perform acts, unless the physician has reason to believe the physician assistant or advanced practice nurse lacked the competency to perform the act or acts or commits willful and wanton misconduct.

p.s No attorney would talk the time to post that much on Aesthetic website. Please feel free to view the .gov site i provided. You can also find out what state does accept Aestheticians to do lasers.

10.19 | Unregistered Commentersal

Sal,

Med Spa Guy is correct.

http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/who/esth.asp

No he is not. Re-read the link I posted on illinois laws and lasers.

10.29 | Unregistered CommenterSal

Anesthesia are not used with laser sweetheart.
Feel free to also research laser schools for Aestheticians. They would not be offered if it was not legal.

10.29 | Unregistered CommenterSal

How about I make a deal with you Sal? I won’t tell you you're wrong, if you don’t call me sweetheart-k?

The site that you pushing us to go to is http://www.idfpr.com/dpr/who/esth.asp

If you look at the hypertext link titled “Statement Regarding lasers” It takes you to this pdf: http://www.idfpr.com/Forms/Memo/09012009MedRulesAmendmentNotice.pdf

In that pdf- at the very bottom, it clearly states “Please refer to section 1285.336 of the Rules for the Administration of Medical Practices Act for complete information”
And then directs you to http://www.idfpr.com/. Which then takes you here:

http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1309&ChapAct=225%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B60%2F&ChapterID=24&ChapterName=PROFESSIONS+AND+OCCUPATIONS&ActName=Medical+Practice+Act+of+1987.

That is because the use of lasers in EVERY state is regulated by said state’s Medical Association. The laws are different from state to state and change frequently based on legislative activity.

To make a blanket statement that because a school is in business, therefore what they teach must be legal in EACH state is absurd.

And off course, anesthesia is not used for laser treatments! What @medspaguy is referring to is the clause that lumps together anesthesiologists and physicians.

Your information is incorrect and your logic is faulty. But you’re not wrong, sweetheart.

actually, it depends on the laws in that specific state. For example, in New York there is NO law on who can operate a laser device.

11.30 | Unregistered Commenterlmm

@lmm: Your information is incorrect. NY state's division of the AMA sets the parameters on who can operate a laser.

I just found this. This is for the state of Oregon :

Esthetic Use of Lasers Requires Proper Training:

Safety Measures and Must Be in Scope of Practice
The Oregon Health Licensing Agency (OHLA) and the Board of Cosmetology
have adopted the following position statement to clarify their position on the
regulation of laser use by estheticians and to reinforce public safety:

Lasers and light-based devices such as intense pulse light (IPL) may be used
by estheticians but only for services within the esthetics scope of practice,
which is defined in Oregon Revised Statutes 690.005(7) as “…skin care
practices performed on the human body for the purpose of keeping the skin
healthy and attractive and not for medical diagnosis or treatment of disease or
physical or mental ailments.” The statutory definition also allows for “…the
temporary removal of hair.”

The use of lasers and light-based devices is currently limited to laser hair
removal and any other procedure that is non-ablative and non-invasive. We
point to the Oregon Medical Board’s statement regarding the surgical use of
lasers (attached). However, we will be taking a closer look at these terms and
how they relate to esthetics practice – such as:

• Should ablation (destruction) of the surface level of skin, which is
composed mainly of dead skin cells, be permitted? Regulations
currently allow destruction of these cells through other mechanical or
chemical means, such as microdermabrasion and facial peels.

• Should procedures which bypass the outer skin layers, usually by IPL,
and heat, but do not destroy, the lower dermal layers, be considered
invasive? As has been stated before, a hot wet towel pressed against
the skin can heat the dermal layers.

As with any advanced procedure, evidence of training in the safe and effective
use of lasers must be provided upon request to OHLA. Training by the device
manufacturer is acceptable as long as it is documented.

OHLA and the Board of Cosmetology are currently developing laser safety
standards that may be required in the future. For more information, please
visit www.oregon.gov/OHLA/COS.
OHLA and the Board of Cosmetology adopted this position statement on
Monday, January 28, 2008.

Here is the website:
http://egov.oregon.gov/OHLA/COS/docs/Position_Statements/Laser_Safety_Position_Statement_1_28_08.pdf

You can also go to this website and see what is and what isn't allowed:
http://egov.oregon.gov/OHLA/COS/Position_Statements.shtml

Hope this helps.

01.24 | Unregistered Commenterbel27th

What ARE the requirements for using thermage?
Esty in Cali

What ARE the requirements for using thermage?
Esty in Cali

Regarding comment "State of Florida has allow RN, NP, or PA to work under the MD's license and insurance, but the MD has to be in the building" ??? Are you sure about this? FL. seems kind of wide open to me in this area? I am under the impression the physician does NOT have to be in house, as long as they are on call, reachable to the NP/PA via phone 24/7.

And OK, just to add to this interesting laser conversation, in regards to FL state, I have seen several new medi spas in FL opening up, employing "non medical persons". Instead they are employing estheticians, general RN/LPN nurses, med techs, and lay non medical people to implement services. They are hanging their shingles and offering various laser services among other commonly offered medical aesthetics. Anyone else noticing this in FL? I inquired about this, I was curious how they could medically operate this way. They claim to be working under "their MD's license" and that the physician is their medical director, on call 24/7 of course to the non licensed medi spa staff? Does anyone know if this is even legal? How is it a person not licensed to practise allowed to use equipment that can cause serious liabilities if used incorrectly. Seems a bit unbalanced to me...

And how is it a non-provider can even purchase a laser? Why is it they are even allowed to attend laser education training courses? Anyone know what the laws are FL??? It seems to be gray area and the various boards offer confusing answers when asked!

01.27 | Registered Commenterrkn

I would appreciate some feedback on my question only by qualified personnel:

I am an administrator for a physician (speciality practice). We have an aesthetic component to our practice in which we employ a full time esthetician. All procedures done by her are under the direct supervision of the physician. We do Botox and fillers which HE injects. I do not employ a nurse injector. He has been approached by a massage therapist who has recently finished esthetician school. She has a business located about 20 miles from us. She is wanting to perform procedures such as IPL, chemical peels, etc. We also carry a medical grade of skin care. The physician would like for this esthetician to be able to retail the same skin care line that we do.

Could someone give me information on the issues and regulations around becoming a "medical director" for an independent location? I have read a great deal of information but would like some additional feed back. This is honestly not something I am comfortable with as an administrator. We are located in South Carolina. I am contacting the State Board of Examiners and I have spoken with someone on our State Board of Cosmetology. I am not getting positive feedback.

Thanks for the feedback.

05.25 | Unregistered Commenterrhw

Yikes, It's called "COMMON SENSE.COM" First of all, NOT, all states have the same laws as to who/whom, and what services can be performed by non-medical professionals. And Yes, it can be Very Frustrating, when doing the research and coming up with uncertain answers that should be spelled out in plain black and white. California, and Florida,were FORCED to come up with laws being, that back in the 80's and early 90's when laser systems were being introduced to the the medical markets they had the highest cases of patients getting permanently scared and damaged by LaserTtreatments. What's soo... Crazy about this is that, the Licensed Dr's, where the majority of the ones administering the laser treatments on the patients whom, got Seriously Damaged. I knew, of cases in California, that the licensed Dr.'s were performing CO2Laser treatments on skin type IV's &V's. I knew better then that, and I was Not, Doctor. Point Being: My Passion for this industry has me doing all kinds of research. I Never, stop until I have the answers /facts needed by the ones who/whom sign the bills or instate the laws. There is Not, a Medical Aesthetics procedure out there either global or domestic, that I don't know, of how it works, whom it will work on, or if, it really does, benefit the individuals said to. And Yes, there is a list with all 50 states that says, who, can, cannot, and if medical director's are needed to FIRE-UP & blah, blah,....

estheticians can use lasers in certain states=--- there is nothing to be AFRAID of regarding BREAKING THE LAW (this lawyer has got to be from the south)...an esthetician can use lasers in certain states if she/he has certification.

10.29 | Unregistered Commenterelaine

estheticians can use lasers in certain states=--- there is nothing to be AFRAID of regarding BREAKING THE LAW (this lawyer has got to be from the south)...an esthetician can use lasers in certain states if she/he has certification.

10.29 | Unregistered Commenterelaine

I am a registered Nurse In North Carolina, I have been trained to perform medical aesthetics, including Botox and injectables.I am a part time provider for a plastic surgeon, the experience has been invaluable. The state Law here allows for me to perform these procedures without MD supervision because I am an RN. I DO have a Medical Director, and we are together establishing a Medspa. Every state has different laws, but at the end of the day what is your MD liability or exposure? I carry a million dollars of malpractice insurance, I am a careful and conservative provider, that being said many of these procedures carry risks, and if your MD is comfortable with the risk, then good luck.

10.30 | Unregistered CommenterTracy, RN

Can the practice of perforning Dermaplaning in CA be clarified? The intention of this procedure is NOT to break the surface of living skin, it is meant to rapidly shed dead skin cells, which in turn, also removes vellus hairs from the surface of the face. (similariy to shaving) A scalpel is utilized along with acetone. Similarly, Can I, as a Clinical Aesthetician in CA perform Micro-Dermarolling? I have received just as many "yes" answers, as "no's". HELP!!!!

10.31 | Registered CommenterLa Tricia

Ok....so I have read most of the comments listed above...not all of it bc it seems to have been somewhat redundant and inconclusive. I am a licensed aesthetician in ny...I add the a b4 the e bc I was told that when you deal with lasers and more medical like products...that is how it's spelled...anyway....could care less. I have been an esty for approx 6 yrs...I went to a school in ny that was called advanced aesthetics...unlike lots of other schools...1 which was 10 minutes from my house...The advanced school was an hour away and I drove there everyday bc it trained not only in the standard skincare as I notice everywhere..but it combined lasers such as ipl lhr oxygen tank facials and peels as aggressive as jesner and more....I know that people lie...but when I passed my written and practical...I asked my teacher and owner of the school what was likely to actually be allowed to perform ethically...she said everything you where taught at the school...I have seen Doctors who where affiliated with her in order for her to have the lasers on the premises and have also seen people (not sure what their title) come to make sure rules and regulations where followed. Now...If I have been lied to..that would suck bc I paid more for that school and drove fare to obtain the license along with the knowledge in training. I did not want to learn lasers on the job only but wanted to come in with some knowledge. Now...with everyplace I have worked with a laser...everytime a new laser was introduced...a doctor and or nurse came along with the sales rep to to a training on protocol for that specific platform and we where then presented with a certificate in the completion of training in that spacific system...so...maybe what we are using are considered to be an esthetic level system and I have been told not to exceed certain parameters. I work for a plastic surgeon and when a co2 fraxel or deep mlp is used...he does it. I hope to GOD I haven't been performing treatments I wasn't qualified to do...but when do you think the research is even a necessity when you go to a school who teaches you lasers you have reps selling to your place of employment and training with certificates...how could this be going on so openly if we where not allowed to perform it...Now...maybe again...I am in ny and maybe aestheticians are allowed to perform lasers under esthetic parameters?....cuz to be honest with you...I stumbled across this while seeing what the regulations for using laser in nj bc I want to open up my own business and wasnt sure about nj laws...but this...I would feel like everyone from the school that offered laser training courses owe me money for paying them for something I wasn't aloud to perform amongst others who took my money and or time...was I scammed? I hope not and will look into this much deeper...thing that bothers me most is that I have worked and spoken to doctors with good reputations who have the reputation of being not only good surgeons but ethical....WOW

11.9 | Unregistered Commenteranna

Regarding medical spas in CA, please go to the Medical Board of CA, and type business of medical spas. There you will find the limitations of aestheticians, nurses, PAs and NPs. The use of lasers and other medical devices, are considered "pratice of medicine" in CA. A medical spa can only be owned by a medical professional, eg MD, having a 51% share in the corporation. No nurse or aesthetician can hire a MD to be the medical director of their spa. A MD who is "hired" by such, would be considered aiding and abetting with the unlicensed practice of medicine in CA and could consequently mean the loss of his/her medical license.

11.10 | Registered CommenterLotus

The state health department regulatory agency/comission for your license should be able to clarify whether or not your license enables you to perform certain laser treatments. Not all laser treatments fall in the same category. Aa an example, chiropractors in WA state are able to use lasers specifically for spine-related pain and cellular repair (these are Class 2 and 3 lasers). The new generation of lasers for fat reduction such as the I-lipo however, are not within the chiropractic scope of practice in WA. The health department wording is that they don't condone it, as it isn't in the scope of practice. Too bad. As a chiropractor in WA, I've been negotiating to buy an I-lipo and have chosen to stop. The laser salesman had no idea I couldn't use it in my practice. If I had unknowingly used the laser and subsequently had a problem, my malpractice carrier would not cover me given the above information. Do your homework and get the health dept position in your state. By the way, we have chiropractors in this state using this equipment.... scary.

"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, chiropractors performing liposuction... mass hysteria".. Dr. Peter Venkman

What do you think of I-Lipo chromogenex? does it work? I'm in Canada and thinking to buy it for my spa directly from UK which costs me 8000 less than buying from canadian rep. still thinking though! any feed back? i appreciate.

11.19 | Unregistered CommenterTiby

Tiby, How much were you quoted from the UK? I might be able to save you some $$.

11.30 | Unregistered CommenterGreg K

really? that would be great. i am paying 15000 pounds just for the i-lipo plus 2750 pounds for the Ultra handpiece ( for cellulite). all together with taxes in canadian dollar would be 34518.78 ( Ultra Ilipo) but here in Canada only ilipo machines costs $38000 plus $4940 tax for a total of $42940.

11.30 | Unregistered CommenterTiby

What type of machine is an LHE? Is this machine consider a type 1 medical device? Can an esthetician use this type of machine in the state of NJ?

12.4 | Unregistered CommenterCarly

Carly: The "LHE" device is a novel version of intense pulse light which is coupled with direct heating provided by very thin electric wire. The company has an "over the counter" device called the "No No" which you can buy and use on yourself. It would be unwise-- especially in New Jersey-- to perform treatments on other people using any of these devices. New Jersey laws and regulations allow only licensed PHYSICIANS to treat people with either lasers or IPL devices.

Thank you so much for your advice.

12.8 | Unregistered CommenterCarly

HOORAY !!!! I have been posting here FOR A LONG TIME about the laws and the fact that ANY USE OF A LASER CONSTITUTES THE PRACTICE OF MEDICINE. Some of you laughed at me. However, who has the last laugh now?
I can understand trying to increase a stream of income for whatever reason. The problem is those using lasers to do it have been listening to a sales rep who is trying to sell as much as possible to the few people out there who still do not have one.
Even the manufacturers are having problems.

Imagine, a laser for sale OTC (OVER THE COUNTER). I SAW IT AT BLOOMINGDALES. That means to anyone who has the money. No requirement for reading instructions, no education for side effects LIKE BLINDNESS, and so on. NO LIMITATIONS FOR AGE. THEY DO NOT CARE... JUST SHOW ME THE MONEY. IT SEEMS THEY ARE ALL "CONNING" AS MANY AS THEY CAN AS FAST AS THEY CAN.

ONE OF THE WORLD'S LEADING HOSPITALS HAS REMOVED LASERS FROM THE HANDS OF RNs, PAs, NPs, and all people who are NOT licensed to do this work. The Massachusetts General Hospital is the place. They no longer do laser hair removal as they are not convinced it does what it is promoted for. Results have not been adequately uniform and too many patients had regrowth that indicated NEGATIVE RESULTS. This is SURGERY, consequently, ONLY BOARD CERTIFIED PLASTIC SURGEONS AND DERMATO SURGEONS CAN USE A LASER AT THIS WORLD FAMOUS, ETHICAL, HOSPITAL.

12.10 | Unregistered Commenterlefty2g

If all the posts were not so sad they would be funny. Think of this... Right here on the net.....FDA states... LASERS ARE PRESCRIPTION DEVICES THAT CAN NOT BE SOLD TO OR USED BY ANYBODY THAT IS NOT LICENSED TO USE THEM IN THE STAE WHERE THEY PRACTICE. THAT IS A FEDERAL REGULATION . IT HAS THE WEIGHT OF LAW.

No state issues a license for "laser techs", therefore there are no laser techs and none are legally insured for problems that come up with lasers. Side effects as a result of laser hair removal SO FAR INCLUDE, 2 DEATHS, BLINDNESS, SEIZURES, COMA, HEART ARRHRYMIAS, 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree burns, HYPERTROPHIC SCARS AND KELOIDS... SHALL I GO ON?
HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU WENT BLIND OVER SOME HAIR ON THE BIKINI LINE?
I UNDERSTAND NOBODY WANTS TO LOSE THE INCOME OF A GOING BUSINESS, HOWEVER.... HERE IS A BIG QUESTION.... WHERE DID YOUR INSTRUCTORS GET THEIR TRAINING? HOW LONG DID IT TAKE (HOURS)?

DOCTORS ARE ONLY TRAINED BY BOARD CERTIFIED PLASTIC SURGEONS AND BOARD CERTIFIED DERMATO SURGEONS, SUPERVISING (OVERSEEING) IN ACCREDITED HOSPITALS.

WHO DO YOU WANT TO DO LASER WORK ON YOU? HOW MANY HOURS DID YOUR INSTRUCTOR HAVE TO PUT IN TO GET "LICENSED"? WHERE? BY WHO? Were they licensed? Where?

LASER OPERATORS WERE SO ENAMORED OF THE IDEA OF DOING THESE PROCEDURES, they overlooked the schools and the teachers who were conning everybody. I would sue them for the money I spent on lasers and any other equipment I purchased as a result of useless training that promised what could NEVER be delivered as they did notrealize they were NOT QUALiFIED TO TEACH the use of lasers and you were not notified your "schooling diploma" was really useless. Doctors get more than 40 hours training with lasers (who came up with that number? How?. Where would you go to get treated.) I saw an ad here on the web for vaginal laser treatments to make the "g" spot more sensitive. Who came up with these ideas? What if you burn that area and remove the sensitivity forever? Who is willing to treat a patient with this "OFF LABEL" use. That is EXPERIMENTING ON A HUMAN which has so many legal problems that there is no room to go into this here.

Melting fat sounds great, however,did you ever get a warning about NEVER FRY BACON IN THE NUDE. The temperature of melted fad is very high and will burn you severely. How can you do that without damaging the patient's insides? Where does the melted fat go? Do you open a spigot on the side and let it drain out or will it re-congeal in another spot where there is no additional heat? Operators are so poorly trained in areas surrounding a profession that they are doomed from the start. They accept answers that are not adequate answers. Same as in laser training. If you know only a little you can not ask important questions.

12.10 | Unregistered Commenterlefty2g

Lefty2g your post was the worst one on the site. There ARE states in which they license Aestheticans and Non-Medical people to do Laser Services, and they are regulated, registered the same as Cosmo's & Aestheticans, and Barbers. Unfortunately most of the burns and scars I have seen have been done by MD's who do NOT require ANY training on lasers and ANY MD can do laser services from a urologist to a pediatrician. Due to the fact that they are MD's which is scary cause I know I wouldn't want a podiatrist who graduated 30 yrs ago and has never taken any furthering education since med school to whip out a laser and start firing, just cause he or she is a MD.
Your references of being nude & cooking bacon and LHR on the bikini and going blind?? are the most insane comparisons and references I have ever read. I really worry about the people who are being treated by you
1. For the safety of them, you and any near you.
2. What is their mental state to allow YOU to touch them in any capacity medical or not.

I can honestly say with all the stupidity, ignorance on this site I can understand why people don't hold high respect for CLT, Estheticans. So sad cause I have been a working Medical Aesthetican for almost 12 yrs and State Certified Laser Technician for 7 along with teaching at a State Certified Laser school.

P.S. Hey Lefty2g did ya notice the words State Certified

12.12 | Unregistered CommenterC.G

omg- I love leftyg's posts! They make for great comedy!
I love how he completely and totally destroys any credibility within two paragraphs.
Hilarious stuff!

Here in Oregon, it is my understanding that the requirements for operating a laser are fulfilled by being licensed by the manufacturer of the particular laser being used. Yes, that sounds fairly hokey, and the State Board of Cosmetology are exploring ways to make it a more formal, regulated process, but for now, it's kind of a free-for-all. Yikes! Meanwhile, in most med spas, where injections are given (botox, etc) are used they need to have an MD or an RN on staff, but she or he doesn't have to be present for every procedure. In most cases they do the medical injections but leave the lasers to the aestheticians.

12.18 | Unregistered CommenterKB

IT IS OBVIOUS MOST OF US DO NOT KNOW THE LAWS OF ALL STATES (I don't). Very few states have regulations that allow non-medical people to use lasers. IF THEY DO IT IS BECAUSE THOSE REGULATIONS WERE PASSED BY PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW LASER USE IS SURGERY. SURGERY>>> ANY PROCEDURE THAT ALTERS THE STRUCTURE and/or FUNCTION OF THE AREA BEING TREATED IS SURGERY. Very clear and succinct. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THAT THAT YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND?The post above mine stated the LASER COMPANIES WERE GIVING LICENSES. WHAT A JOKE. If that were me I WOULD SUE THEIR A--.AND GET A FULL REFUND ON THE MACHINE. THE MERE FACT THEY suggested to you they were a LEGALLY AUTHORIZED AGENCY OF ANY GOVERNMENT SO THEY COULD ISSUE A LICENSE is in itself MIND BOGGLING. DOES ANYONE HERE REALLY BELIEVE THAT? ALL STATES SHOULD SUE THEM TOO FOR ISSUING A FAKE LICENSE TO "PRACTICE MEDICINE". I guess they will continue to do this until someone calls them on it. If any non-medical person has a relative that is a lawyer... ask them about it. There have been a number of posts here that agree with me. It is too bad the ILLEGAL ones do not realize they have no insurance to cover them. Check it out. I did. If the customer thinks that since there are no laws in the state regarding this they are wrong becausr IN ALL STATES IT IS ILLEGAL TO PRACTICE MEDICINE WITHOUT A LICENSE. I CAN'T SAY WHERE CHIROPRACTOR FIT IN. THEY DONOT DO SURGERY OF ANY KIND. I DO NOT THINK THEY CAN WRITE A LEGA; PRESCRIPTION FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.. THAT IS WHY THEY TRY TO SELL YOU "THEIR" VITAMINS AND OTHER STUFF.

I had an idea for a BEAUTY MALL. Only all kinds of business that had to do with beauty. NO KIDS OF ANY AGE ALLOWED. I would done in sections by speciality. LAVISLY DECORATED. A HANDSOME YOUNG UNIFORMED YOUNG doorman to open the door for entrance and exiting, Exercise facilities, lunch counters that sell fruit juice drinks and/or low cal menus, nail parlors, hair dressers, spas, massage parlors. ONLY LEGAL operators of devices(THEY HAVE TO SHOW MALPRACTICE POLICIES TO SIGN A LEASE). All operators have to be licensed by the STATE not a salesman. (I still can't get over that one. How many of you have had that experience ? I never thought anyone would try that. Its like IMPERSONATING A POLICE OFFICER. IF THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE "SELLING" YOU A LICENSE TO USE THEIR MACHINE IS LIKE A FRANCHISE... THAT MIGHT BE A POSSIBILITY BUT NOT A "LICENSE TO PRACTICE".

People love to be "conned". That is why the "CON MEN" are so successful. Over the years there have been many "black boxes" the hum, blink, whistle, vibrate, etc, (maybe they now com in colors beside black). Look at how many "scams" there are in the diet business, No matter what they "push", all of them require a very low calorie intake to the degree it is almost STARVATION. Each week there is another new one. IF THEY WERE SO EFFECTIVE....WHY DID THE CONSUMER STOP USING IT AND SWITCH TO ANOTHER. THERE IS A NEW ONE EVEY WEEK ,so it seems.

MOST OF THESE DEVICS are shipped UPS or FEDEX (not the mails) because they do not want to tangle with the FEDS for MAIL FRAUD. AS IT IS >>> THEY SHIP ACROSS STATE LINES SO IT COULD BE INTERSTATE COMMERCE. THERE ARE SO MANY LAWS THAT YOU HAVE TO DECIDE UNDER WHICH DEPARTMENT TO SUE THEM.

IF ALL DIETS WORKED they would fill a big demand. SAME AS HAIR REMOVAL. LOOK IN THE MAIL ORDER ADS TO SEE HOW MANY HAIR REMOVAL DEVICES THERE ARE. If many of these women (MOSTLY women) have some degree of POLYCYSTIC DISEASE (up to 15% do) but even their GYNO doesn't want to treat them properly by referring them to an endocrinologist who is a female herself as she is more empathic to this patient's condition. Most just order BIRTH CONTROL PILLS WHICH CAN INCREASE HAIR GROWTH IN THESE PATIENTS (it sys so in the package insert that comes with the pills).

What legal agency provided your teachers with a license? It sounds to me as though all TEACHERS OF LASER TECHNIQUE are ILLEGAL TOO.If they sold you a course in laser treatments and know it is illegal to use them... I think they are also liable under consumer laws. In my state the penalty is TREBLE DAMAGES PLUS ATTORNE'S FEES.

I've had enough for today. g'bye.

12.22 | Unregistered Commenterlefty2g

I'm an Illinois LICENCED esthetician who's worked at medi-spas and w/ plastic surgeons. ESTHETICIANS CAN LEGALLY PERFORM LASER HAIR REMOVAL, IPLs, FRACTIONAL LASER TREATMENTS FOR SCARING AND STRETCH MARKS, TATTOO REMOVAL, VEIN THERAPY, and any other laser treatment you can imagine. The notion it's somehow illegal is FALSE!! I never even worked for a "spa" I went directly into the "medical esthetic" field after I finished my licensing. Last I touched a waxed pot was in school! I was in school!! In the state of Illinois, an esthetician can perform all of these procedures under a MEDICAL DIRECTOR. This means that a doctor simply has to open a facility under his name. I've probably only passed by our medical director 5 times over the past few years. You rarely even see them. There are SEVERAL other states where it's the same. So no, "medspa guy" doesn't know what he's talking about AT ALL!

Oh and as for "lefty2g's" post, 110% WRONG! Actually it was pretty ignorant and insulting. This person has NOT A CLUE as to what laser hair removal entails. To be honest, I couldn't bring myself to sit here and read the entire post because everything I saw was just so obsurd. But I can tell you that it's temporary hair removal, with permanent REDUCTION. Meaning 75-90% REDUCTION is dark brown and black hairs. IT IS NOT SURGERY!!!!! THERE IS NO INVASION TO THE SKIN!! Machines that "melt fat" are also NON-INVASIVE!! That is why NURSES tend to just be injectors (botox & fillers), while estheticians treat with lasers. This shows us you don't even understand how lasers work. Next time do some reasearch first.

leftyg, please just stop.

You have no understanding of licensing of advanced aestheticians, or the certification process that laser companies use. Furthermore you are passing on some pretty ridiculous non information about PCOS.

I have PCOS.

Birth control pills are *prescribed* by an Endocrinologist treating PCOS because the artificial estrogen "tricks" the PCOS sufferer's body into stop producing the excessive amounts of androgenic hormones that cause Hirsutism.

There is no "ordering" birth control pills. There is a comprehensive treatment plan set up by specialists in the Endocrinology field where BCP are taken in conjuction with other medications to treat this disorder.

Your ranting only reveals the depths of your ignorance and what's even worse- the lack of initiative to research the industry you rail against.

Thus far almost everyone on this question is wrong in some respect. First off you must know the particular laws in your state regarding the use of lasers. NJ for instance has a strict, simple policy .you want to point and fire a laser at human tissue great for you get a degree in Medicine.

Other states such as NY have holes in the laws such as only a MD or NP/PA with the physician present can use a laser and aesthecetians can not use a laser yet it goes un noticed untill something goes wrong. The bigger problen is the laser company reps, they tend not to know anything about the regional laws and spread incorrect information. They talk about having aesthecetians performing profractional, erbium, thermage and these are all medical in almost every state but again nothing is done untill someone gets hurt.

My area is NY but I would find it amazing if anyother state would allow "medical aestheticians" to use surgically ablaitive lasers at any time. If everyone wants to do something medical then simply go to medical school . Unfortunately, untill the doctors that are money hungry enough to blindly put thir license on the line by allowing unqualified persons perform procedures they shouldnt be performing start having their license pulled then this problem will continue to occur.

12.25 | Unregistered Commentergm

The above goes for all but med spa guy, his posts seem quite accurate.

12.25 | Unregistered Commentergm

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