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Solta: Thermage & Fraxel > Black market Thermage tips?

I've become aware of "black market" Thermage tips when I received a terse form letter from Thermage warning me not to use them.

Does anyone even know what these tips are?
I've heard about these tips as well. They're coming from outside the country. They're not actually Thermage tips, they're a way of re-programming the origional tips that removes resets the timer and "hit-count". I know where Thermage stands, but I'm not completely sure if it's unsafe. After all, the Thermage tips that have 650 hits are EXACTLY the same tips they use for 150 hits except the internal number count is set differently. I'm going to look into this further. More later.
07.7 | Unregistered Commenterriskdoc
I have a study showing that these 'hijacked' Thermage tips have been used up to 50,000 hits without any change. I'll have to see if I can find it. It's somewhere on my hard drive.
07.7 | Unregistered CommenterCAMD
Okay we used to get and use things to referb these tips. Thermage isn't a great procedure anyway, and the marketing plan of the company is to get a chunck of every treatment that you do. So, they will go after docs at some point or do a "service upgrade" that will add some serial number checking to the unit that will validate "authorized chips", then the other company will respond with new "authorized" reset chips. When the market share goes south because Thermage is too greedy, they will start to go after the docs.

Don't think so?

What has DUSA done with compounded Levulon? What has Allergan done with Canadian or Mexican Botox? They get the FDA involved to "protect patents" oops I ment rather "protect patients."

I recommend this:

1) Don't do Thermage treatments. They don't work anyway, folks that do then with an Erbium are only seeing the Erbium effect. It is a fraud/scam technology. Please let it go away. Yes Oprah endorsed it a few years ago, she's gulliable too and just wants to keep ratings high.

2) If you feel that you must scam your patients because you don't have a real treatment or can provide a real surgical intervention for them because you're not qualifed to be doing what you are trying to "sell" to unspecting patients in the first place (that't my rant for today), then at the very least have the odacity to buy the real tips from Thermage and spread the wealth from unsuspecting patients as the FDA and Thermage wants you to.

3) Use the Thermage unit as a paperweight, or extra mobile desk. Hey, you already got (or are still) getting a write-off correct!?
07.7 | Unregistered Commenterdoc
If you are interested in the tip reactivation microchips, here is the e-mail: thermacool@hotmail.com
you will save lots of money, just ask them to send you all the info, it works good for me.

01.29 | Unregistered Commenterdoc55

Does this technique work with the Aesthera PPx tips ?

06.17 | Unregistered CommenterDr Mike

I am a practitioner who has used Thermage for 3.5 years. I was initially, like most practitioners extremely disappointed with the results which saw only about a 30% satisfaction rate for patients. The issues with subcutaneous fat loss occurred as a consequence of practitioners desperately looking for ways to improve the success rates. Little guidance was provided by the company. Clearly the technology when originally introduced was not ready for prime time. Over the years, the number of pulses progressively increased so that effectively now the number of pulses is about 4x the number that originally was used producing a satsifaction rate in excess of 85-90% when the patient has been properly educated about what it is that thermage can do and to make sure that only patients with mild to moderate skin laxity are treated since more than that will require multiple sessions of thermage that will be prohibitively expensive. The company's response was clearly inappropriate and harmful to its own best interest. When it became clear from experimentation in the field that progressively more pulses were needed the company just charged for the extra pulses without making proper allowances for the extra cost and time necessary to do the procedure. The attitude became predatory on the practitioners which created the vacuum which resulted in competition for producing both refurbished Thermage tips as well as consumables. The company attempted to aggressively intimidate its practioners whenever necessary to reprogram their machines to disallow the use of any refurbished tips by threatening law suits. However, as a result of this reasonable challenge in the market place Thermage eventually has now lowered the cost of these tips to help accommodate the need for additional pulses as well as to increase the size of the treatment tips and now more recently the refractory time between pulses that helps to speed up treatment time. The current cost of tips is now only about $100 more for a 600 pulse tip for the 3.0 cm2 size than for the refurbished tip. Previously it was twice the cost. It is my feeling that Thermage treatment does a good job in properly selected patients if adequate pulses are applied which for a full face is probably 1200-1500 pulses. Unfortunately, Thermage only makes a maximum pulse tip of 900 which requires the purchase of an extra 300 pulse tip for about $300, the cost of which cannot easily be charged back to the patient since the standard cost of the treatment of $3,500 in most areas is about as much as the market will tolerate. If you have an older machine, do not permit Thermage to reprogram your machine to disallow the use of the refurbished tips since its just such a threat that unfortunately seems necessary to keep these predators at bay.

Regarding the issues of pain, I give all my patients 150-200 mg oral demerol or the equivalent prior to the procedure. I want them to feel a little loopy. That way I can turn up the energy levels and get a better result. The procedure is supposed to be uncomfortable but tolerable. If they are clenching their fists, grinding their teeth and curling their toes, then you just turn the energy down. Regardless, excessive pain is avoidable. For some people, I determine the energy levels that they require based on pain threshold and then to make the procedure more comfortable, I will use these levels on all areas of the face but use a local block such as 2% lidocaine in those areas that seem excessively sensitive. But it is critically important that you determine a patient's energy tolerance before doing this. Otherwise you might be tempted to use excessive energy levels because they can't give you any feedback that might either burn the skin or produce subcutaneous fat loss because the energy may have gone too deep.

Off face applications such as the stomach and arms and legs are impractical due to the excessive time that is necessary to cover these areas with the current tips along with the excessive cost of additional tips. If the company would reduce the cost of the tips, which they won't significantly enough, then some of these areas could then be addressed.

What the company should have done was to create a 1200 pulse tip for the current 600 pulse price with a time limit on it set to prevent excessive use on other patients and the practitioner advised to use as many pulses as seems necessary up to a maximum of 1200. Otherwise, the practitioner will be tempted to use less pulses in order to save cost and consequently achieve a lesser desired result which ultimately is not in anyone's best interest including that of the short sighted company that manufactures them.

08.1 | Unregistered CommenterDr Jim

Hello

I had thermage last year & i have had really bad side effects but im not here 2 moan about them.
Im desprate for someone to tell me that something can be done to fix it and get my face back please.

Im so desprate ill pay watever it takes to get my life back like it used to be.

Im 23 years old i just want to look 23 again.

Any help would be fantastic


please email me


Thanks

Miss S

09.10 | Unregistered CommenterShay

When can i get these thermage tips from?? It sounds interesting. I tried that e-mail but I dont think is good.

Thanks

Patuca

10.6 | Unregistered Commenterpatuca

Thermage is just retarded. I sure as hell wouldn't put that crap on my face for a subtle tightening effect at that price when there's the off chance that it could cause my face to cave in. I think when medicine evolves treatments like these will be looked back on as barbaric.

Dr. Jim,
Would you be willing to talk to Thermage about your technique? Do you really need more than 900 pulses?

10.8 | Unregistered CommenterDr. Bob

Can anyone tell me whether I can get refurbished thermage tips anymore? Where can I get it? How good is the refurbished tip?
The price of original thermage tips have gone up. With the economic crisis it is too costly to offer thermage now-for me and for the patient. Please advice

10.26 | Unregistered CommenterThermageDr

Thermage refusing to sale tips unless given $8000 first to "inspect" NT machine. Does anyone want to share tip purchases? Or does anyone have new contact for refurbished tips?

03.5 | Unregistered CommenterVAMD

Concerning above...email to jason.seutter@yahoo.com with any information or if you want a purchase/share agreement...

thanks

03.5 | Unregistered CommenterVAMD

Miss S
You need to get fat grafting....

03.24 | Unregistered CommenterAce

All of these laser manufacturers are scammers. I just got word of how much Syneron wants to extend the coverage on my lasers - robbery!

03.26 | Unregistered Commenterno doc

I've discussed my experiences with Thermage in detail. They don't seem interested. I haven't done the procedure now for quite some time and haven't ordered any tips for quite a while. Haven't heard anything about the $8,000 inspection fee for the machine. No way in hell would I submit to such as that. Perhaps just wait for the next generation of refurbished tips. I haven't looked for them in some time though. I just stopped doing the procedure since I didn't wish to deal with Thermage's predatory practices. And as to the adequacy of 900 pulses, Thermage has been wrong about how many pulses to use from the beginning continuing to increase the number of pulses used from year to year. Why should we believe 900 pulses is adequate. I was consistently using 1200 to 1500 pulses for a full face but I can't afford to spend that time and reduce the cost as well. So the machine sits idle.

03.30 | Unregistered CommenterDr Jim

For those who wish to continue to work with Thermage for the time being and take advantage of the 'volume' discounts offered for the purchase of multiple tips, i think that would be a great idea. email me at drddiet@aol.com as see if we can get a user's group organized for this purpose. However, a larger and more beneficial purpose would be to organize an enlarging users group who could collectively bargain with Thermage for anything that was in our mutual interest. Ah, and if you are really quick about this you might guess what we also could do with such an enlarging bargaining position. If we could gain a significant percentage of Thermage users, perhaps as much as 30% of their user base then we can reasonably demand as a group reasonable and necessary changes such as getting rid of the onerous and predatory contract that they demand people sign. We could also demand bigger discounts on consumables including tips as well as to increase the pulse rate on tips for the face to perhaps 1800 pulses or 3 hours time limit whichever comes first. I am convinced from my experience that depending on the nature of the patient's face including laxity that a minimum of 1200 pulses to perhaps 1800 pulses may be necessary to optimize treatment results. Please see my earlier post.

Regarding the young lady who had her face 'ruined' with Thermage. This degree of dissatisfaction was most certainly secondary to localized depressions created from fat loss as a consequence of pulse stacking which should never be done except by very experienced practitioners in areas where fat loss is specifically desired such as for jowling. However, mesotherapy is much more predictable for this purpose and I would never use Thermage for fat loss. As to what you can do for someone who has experienced such fat loss, if it is significant then localized fat injections by an 'experienced' plastic surgeon for this purpose is the only long term solution. However, if it isn't done correctly, it can actually make the visual effect even worse. So be careful. If you are a potential patient always ask how many pulses they use for a complete face including cheeks, upper and lower eyelids and upper neck. I personally don't think that you can get a consistently good result with the 900 pulses that they recommend. So if they want to do the standard 900 pulses then don't have it done. You might get a decent result with 900 pulses if the procedure is done correctly otherwise but the odds are probably only 30% that you will be satisfied with the results. And of course, no stacking of pulses. Stacking of pulses, for those unaware, is when the practitioner keeps pulsing the same spot three or more times before moving to the next spot. You can melt fat and cause skin depressions if you do that.

So back to the original thought, if you are a practitioner and want to form a user's group of the type I mentioned earlier then email me at drddiet@aol.com. My wife is an attorney and would be happy to threaten them with a class action suit if our numbers are large enough to exert that degree of pressure. I'll look forward to hearing from you.

Dr Jim

04.11 | Unregistered CommenterDr Jim

I bought refurbished Thermage tips and they work just fine. They cost 100 for each tip.

Solta Medical Launches illumiNATION tour in U.S. and Europe to Introduce New Thermage CPT(TM) and Fraxel re:store(R) Dual System

HAYWARD, Calif., Sept. 10 -- Solta Medical, Inc. (Nasdaq: SLTM) is proud to celebrate the launch of the new Thermage CPT and Fraxel re:store Dual systems with the kick off of the illumiNATION tour (www.illumiNATIONtour.com). Starting September 14 and continuing through November, the illumiNATION tour is bringing the latest breakthroughs in Thermage(R) and Fraxel(R) systems directly to physicians in over 20 cities across the U.S. and 11 cities in Europe.

The tour will travel from city-to-city aboard a classic - but modernized - Airstream(R) trailer outfitted with Thermage and Fraxel treatment stations. The sleek, iconic Airstream continues to be celebrated for its eye-catching, innovative design and remains the epitome of style and glamour on the road. Solta Medical is bringing that same timeless yet modern style and beauty to major U.S. and European cities to demonstrate how these new treatments can help you look younger and feel fabulous without the need for invasive procedures.

"We are delighted to be among the first practices in the world to adopt the latest systems from Solta Medical," said Neil Sadick, MD, Clinical Professor of Dermatology, Weill Cornell Medical College. "The illumiNATION tour will generate significant awareness of these exciting new Thermage and Fraxel procedures in every city that it visits."

03.8 | Unregistered Commenterharris

I am so amazed when I read some of these posts regarding Thermage. As a fully qualified Dermal therapist working in a cosmetic surgery clinic..... let me add the date December 2010 we average five treatments per week without any incidences. I have worked in North America when Thermage was originally introduced and like any technology the protocols have changed and the machine has been fine tuned and updated.I have amazing results and will only offer the Thermage procedure to clients that will respond to the treatment.
So my big thing is.... come forward , lets see the damage, name the clinic,.
I have tried this before and have been bounced off

12.6 | Unregistered CommenterSusan

Hi Susan,
I'm not so sure that you'll get docs who are using Thermage to start naming names here.
By the way, what is a 'fully qualified Dermal therapist'? Never heard of that license. What state are you in?

12.6 | Unregistered CommenterDermgal

I would really appreciate if someone provide me with information about getting re-programmed Fraxel SR tip.

05.17 | Registered CommenterYong J

I used refurbished tips before and I would like to buy more...please write to me if you know where to get them
cristinaferguson7@gmail.com

06.26 | Unregistered Commentercristina

[This comment by 'LogicalDevices' has been removed for violating our terms.]

Looking for large Tips or permanent Tips.
Can anybody provide leads?

thx

11.24 | Unregistered CommenterSam

Please help. I'm looking into the current costs associated with disposable items/ hand pieces you must buy each time you use this laser.

04.15 | Unregistered CommenterRSEan

I am looking for less expensive Fraxel Re-store tips (1500). Anyone have sourses?
ThX in advance

11.14 | Unregistered CommenterDr. Rob

Hi, is there anybody who knows from where to get refurbishment of thermage CPT tips. I have hogh volume consumption and want to minimize cost of service

02.15 | Unregistered CommenterAKB

i am also interested in Re-Stored tips for thermage and fraxel. Thx in advance

03.29 | Unregistered CommenterDr.Ax

i"m looking for thermacool tc3 tips for my machine, light blue, light green, and big yellow tips. i an also interested in re-stored tips for thermage thermacool tc3 machine.

I have around 20 of the Thermage Thermacool tc3 tips for sale if interested.

05.8 | Unregistered CommenterFor sale

alibaba sale tips

On Alibaba looking thermage company that if you send your old tips to he will make one for you he said.

We can offer thermage CPT tips, if need, pelase email us robert_avs@hotmail.com

05.17 | Unregistered CommenterRobert

Hi all,

We wish to buy thermage tips (prefer re-programming tips). Please email me for information.

My email: alfredspirit@gmail.com

Thanks

08.25 | Unregistered CommenterAlfred

Hi All


kindly suggest me vender for Reactivation of thermage ctp tip .

actually we used reactivative CPT tip and i think is satisified in compare with original tip. You guys may email me about the source and have a try. cheers

oh sorry for post my email above which is gfdd_gfd@yahoo.com.hk

oh sorry for post my email above which is gfdd_gfd@yahoo.com.hk

hi danny,
which contact are you ordering from for the reactivate tips ?
actually im buying reactivate thermage tip and even original tip from a supplier Hong Kong for nearly 1 year.
Price is lower than most supplier I met.

danny, can you send me your supplier contact ? thanks

here's my email:

gladiajune@google.com

10.28 | Unregistered Commentergladia

Hi everybody! If you need thermage tips you can order from me. Am.sunland@gmail.com

12.4 | Unregistered CommenterAlex

Hello Dr. Ax

If you are still interested in rechargable fraxel tips please write me at cskim143@hotmail.com

THX

12.29 | Unregistered CommenterDr.Ax

hi, purchase a thermage tip 3 600 pulses on ebay ,i used the tip,the treatment went fine it worked very good,
a few days after this i powered on my nxt machine to treat a patient and it
Did not start,it show a message on the acreen EVENT E007.can it be
because of the tip? or maybe this was an aftermarket tip?(non- OEM product)but never mimd that,can you or do you know what can i do solve
the problem or how to reset my nxt machine?
thanks in advance, rafi. my email is: rafi1000 at zahav.net.il

03.20 | Unregistered Commenterrafi.z

Hi Gladia,
Would you mind sharing your Thermage tip HongKong supplier? 'cause I anxiously need to buy some, whatever original or reactive ones. Thanks.

My email : wilsondena101025@gmail.com

BTW, anybody who claim have such reactivate/referbished Thermage tips, please email me.

03.24 | Unregistered CommenterWilson

Any one have rechargeable Ulthera tip ?

Please email me for the price. Thanks

alfredspirit@gmail.com

03.27 | Unregistered CommenterAlfred

Im very interested in Thermage CPC or Fraxel Re:Pair(?) Tips. Please email me: clktze@gmail.com

04.2 | Unregistered CommenterSusannW

hey guys, looking for permanent fraxel restore tips or any other tips?

04.17 | Unregistered Commenterc.s

Hey Guys!

Looking for the Thermage tips, fraxel permananet tips, or ulthera tips?

Please email me at jasonthetipguy@gmail.com

Thanks a lot

05.11 | Unregistered CommenterJason

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a used 2012 - 2013 Thermage CPT. If you are interested in selling that of yours, please email me at: Sharpandpro@gmail.com.

Best.

SP

05.14 | Unregistered CommenterSP

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