Plastic Surgery & Plastic Surgeon

Very interesting discussion on the has kicked out all non-core doctors thread.

TF and Botoxdoc have, er... differing postions on who is able to provide the best plastic surgery care. (Perhaps 'best plastic surgery care' is not the most appropirate term and I should use 'appropriately safe level of plastic surgery care'.)

Anyway, there's been a lively exchange of which the following comments are only a fraction.

Link to the kicks out all non-core docs thread:


I have never claimed that plastic surgeons are the only ones who can do aesthetics, which includes laser work, botox and injectables, as well as surgery. I am very supportive of non-plastic surgeons who do botox, injectables and lasers. I have only made the point that plastic surgery training is currently the best method for training surgeons who want to do total body aesthetic surgery. It may not be perfect, but it's still the standard.

There are no shortcuts in learning how to be a master surgeon. Only those, like yourself, who seem to think that there are shortcuts.

Good luck to you - and your patients....


While you say, I am wrapping my self in the cloak of the "free market" flag and have forgotten the fundsamentals of being a physician "doing no harm", nothing could be further from the truth. I only take cases in which I am proficient. I would never put a patient in harms way, nor perform a case which is not appropriate. I have refered many pts to a plastic surgeon when I felt they needed something more than I could provide them. (At the loss of significant revenue, I might add.) On the contrary, I beleive you are wrapping yourself in the cloak of "patient safety" . It is hubris to beleive I would not have the same concerns as you about patient safety. But because I am not a board certified PS or Derm, I must be, in your mind, a sub-par physician with no regard to my pts well-being, or safety. In fact there is absolutely no hard evidence that supports the argument that having Botox, or any other cosmetic treatment performed by a non-core physician results in more complications. Instead of me showing you my before and afters, why don't you show me a paper (randomized, case controlled, or even a retrospective study) that supports the commonly held belief that non-cores are dangerous. In fact, the complication rate in my clinic is better than what has been documented in the literature. While several months ago at a local hospital, a board certified plastic surgeon performing lipo under general aneasthesia penetraed the viscera and killed his pt. For that he received a reprimand. If I did that, I would probably loose my license or worse. Now I ask you, how fair is that?

In my opinion there needs to be a fundamental change in the system which will allow the acceptance and acknowledges "non-core" physicians performing aesthetics. Until that day arrives, those that judge my work will be my pts. and their families.


You want science - OK, here's some for you.

Subglandular breast augmentation has a higher rate of capsular contracture. Proven in multiple studies.

Subglandular breast augmentation has a higher degree of interference with mammograms. Proven.

Subglandular breast augmentation has a higher rate of unsatisfactory ripples and wrinkles, especially with saline implants. Proven.

Do you offer this procedure because it's the only one you can technically perform?
Do you even offer your patients a choice of sub-pectoral or dual plane techniques?
Do you give a truly informed consent about the other options....Or do you slant it your way, so you can get the patient to book with you?

You claim you are all about patient care - and then you say it's fine to take a weekend course, and then practice unsupervised on the first 100 or so paying customers, so you can master it. Wow. That's messed up!!'s blogged about how that site is only the 'dispenser of information' (my name not theirs) and has removed more than 3000 physician accounts because they were not boarded in plastic surgery or dermatology. I wonder what the majority of questions are about? Liposuction? Breast augmentation?  Or, Botox? I don't think that there's any real disagreement that if you're looking for real plastic surgery you want a plastic surgeon (or cosmetic surgeon). The arguement arises over what is 'real' plastic surgery.

The inclusion of technology starts to blur the lines beween what a plastic surgeone does with a scalpel, and what a non-core doc can do using a laser, IPL, or RF technology. The boundries will only be blurred more as more IPLs and lasers are introducted.