Medical Spa MD is a community of 28,000+ plastic surgeons, dermatologists, & aesthetic physicians practicing cosmetic medicine worldwide. FREE Medical Spa Deals for Clinicians

About   |   Advertise   |   Press   |   Contact

Sponsors & Friends

cosmetic fillers ad

Medical Spa RX Group Buy Program.

medical spa design and advertising

Graphic Design for Medical Spas

Waiting Room Video DVD Marketing

The very best bang for your buck cosmetic marketing!
Watch demo Frontdesk waiting room videos and DVDs.

Medical Spa Training Manuals

Medical spa & laser clinic staff training manuals.

2nd MD
2nd MD - Boarded US physicians work from anywhere.
Medical Justice
Relentlessly protecting physicians from frivolous lawsuits.

More control of your income, career, and lifestyle as a physician.
Read our terms
Newest Comments

Medical Spa MD is a world-wide physician community for clinicians in skin clinics, laser centers and medspas with thousands of physician members around the world. By using this site you agree to our terms of service and fine print.

« Warning: THE Aesthetic Report Is Stealing Our Content And Publishing It As Their Own | Main | Physicians + Lifestyle Design »
Thursday
Jan122012

Purchasing Used Cosmetic Lasers

used cosmetic laser

Looking for a used cosmetic laser or IPL?

By Mickey A. Couvertier, CBET, CLRT

Starting or expanding a private medical or cosmetic practice can be a complicated experience. Location is of the utmost importance, followed by branding, and marketing. Staffing, clinical needs, pricing, advertising- all of these things can be an added headache to the whole process… not to mention acquiring quality equipment, and the follow up service.

While all the other parameters mentioned can be worked, and reworked, the one aspect that can make or break your entire practice is purchasing and servicing used medical lasers. There are hundreds of wholesalers, distributors, and other second source vendors offering as wide a variety of aftermarket options as there are options for new equipment, and even more. OEM’s are also in the market, and while basic supply and demand dictates that so many options should be a benefit to the consumer, the process of choosing which devices to purchase is amongst the most discussed, asked about, debated, and argued about amongst clinicians, salesmen, and repair companies alike. I have written this short guide with the hopes of assisting anyone in the market for a used medical laser in making the right decision.

Assessing Your Clinical Needs

One of the first things to consider when making a decision to purchase a laser is what, exactly, are your clinical needs. You should have a comprehensive list of possibilities. For some of you, this may just be one sheet of paper with two lines. Something like “hair removal,” and “non-ablative skin rejuvenation.” For others, this question may fill a couple of pages. In any case, you should consider your location, your customer base, your competition, your space and power requirements (more on this later), licenses held by your aestheticians, local and state laws (which determine who can perform what and with what device), staffing requirements, and anything else I may have missed.One thing to remember- and I may get a lot of flak for this from this- IPL/BBL is NOT LASER! Though many of you love your IPL/BBL’s, they are NOT the equivalent of the technically superior true lasers. IPL, or Intense Pulsed Light, usually refers to a device where the treatment medium is the diode or flash lamp with the light slightly collimated through a non-radiating crystal. BBL, or Broadband Light, usually refers to a device which uses filtered white (or broadband) light to acquire a specific wavelength, and usually comes with interchangeable filters to alter the wavelength. Though the argument is constantly made that IPL and BBL are equivalent in treatment efficacy to LASER, this is “physically” impossible… that is, the laws of physics preclude non-collimated, non-amplified, non-(truly) monochromatic light from being the technical, clinical, or logical equivalent to light amplified through stimulated emission of radiation. We can debate this later, as I know many of you will be commenting on this.

Now, I’m not a clinician, so please don’t take anything I say as clinical advice. I am merely presenting clinical questions to be considered when purchasing a laser. And though you can always go to your peers for clinical advice, remember that the OEM should be your PRIMARY source of clinical advice, information, parameters, etc. Only the OEM can be held liable for giving unsound clinical advice for their device, and though many believe they are at liberty to utilize a like device for a procedure they may have knowledge of being performed by a like device, it is important to remember that any laser- cosmetic, surgical, and even industrial- is regulated by the FDA, and you should review whether or not your device is FDA approved for the procedure in question.

Space & Power Requirements

The combination of clinical needs and staffing, space and power requirements can be assessed. This is important because it may help determine whether you buy one fully loaded multi-purpose unit, one or two single use units, or a combination of single use and multi-purpose units. One thing to always keep in mind with multi-purpose units is that, often, if you lose one treatment, you are completely down. If you offer hair removal, and skin tightening from a multi-parameter unit, any problem with one can render your unit useless in delivering the other. Sometimes used lasers can be difficult to have repaired, and finding adequate technical service can take several days. Don’t make the mistake of losing days of business from hair removal because your skin tightening laser went out.

Of course, if you only have one treatment room, the point is moot. In this case I would recommend a multi-parameter unit, or in the very least a dual range laser like Nd-Yag (1064nm)/Alexandrite (755nm), Nd-Yag/KTP (532nm), or any of the various laser/IPL platforms. For those of you who have more than one room, remember- if one treatment goes down on your laser, it may put your room out of service. Single parameter, medium, or wavelength units are often cheaper, and easier to service. You have the option of purchasing more units, and even backups with the less loaded systems.

One of the furthest things from your thought process when purchasing a used laser may be (and may not be), but should NOT be, power requirements. A prime setup will allow for 220VAC (no less than 218VAC, and no more than 237VAC, though some lasers will have a lower max), and 30A of dedicated power. Dedicated power is of the utmost importance- no other device should share this power source. Though there are some nice 120VAC systems out there, the 220VAC systems often offer higher power output, and a wider pulse width range. I know 220VAC power is often referred to as 240VAC, and many units operate up to 240VAC. The problem with approaching that power range is that your power supply may be unstable, and I have seen spikes up to 247VAC. What I have never seen is a medical laser designed to be powered at voltages higher than 240VAC. Because of this, stay in the safe range: 218VAC-237VAC. A conditioner may need to be installed at your location, or you may simply have an electrician assess which 240VAC line coming into your building is the most stable.

Your Purchase to Service Cost Ratio

This is a fairly simple concept that many tend to neglect. You see a popular brand laser- fully loaded, all the bells and whistles, and at a great price… why do you think it’s so cheap? It’s fully functional, had one owner, it’s one or two years old… yet it’s being offered at 33%-60% off of retail. The easiest way to see the folly in this is by juxtaposing your laser for a new (or used) car. If you bought a Bentley in 2009, how much do you think it’s worth in 2011? If the vehicle has been driven at a normal rate- even DOUBLE the normal rate, the vehicle would retain at least 90% of its original value. Most other vehicles retain their value in a similar manner. In fact, most other products PERIOD maintain their value greater than lasers. In fact, when you compare lasers to other medical devices (which are probably the fastest depreciating products sold), they lose their value much faster than any other device.

Why do lasers lose their value quicker than any other device? Is there anything we can do about it? The answers are simple. Lasers lose their value quicker than any other device because the upkeep is much more expensive. The lasing medium is often proprietary, or extremely expensive. Excimer lasers, for example, use proprietary blends of gases that have to be periodically recharged. Yag lasers (Nd-Yag, Er-Yag, Ho-Yag) use a yttrium aluminum garnet crystal doped with neodymium, erbium, holmium, or some other medium intended for stimulated emission of radiation. These crystals are grown in labs, and medical quality crystals cost as much as $7,000 each. KTP crystals, used to double the frequency of Nd-Yag laser and create green light at 532nm (double the frequency, halve the wavelength), are also very expensive, and one popular brand uses a crystal and mount that costs $9,000 to replace. Power supplies are equally expensive. Lasing optics, delivery optics, cooling systems, reflective cavities, and other components and accessories add to the cost of lasers.

With premium components come premium training, experience, and education requirements for technicians. And of course, as with anything premium comes the price. Manufacturers invest millions into developing their devices, approving them for sale, and training their service technicians. They protect this investment by monopolizing service, and access to service information. This practice is not only a blatant violation of FDA law, it is detrimental to their own business. Again, juxtaposing lasers for cars- the top sellers are the easiest to work on. They also retain their value.

So what can we do about this? Well, 21 CFR 1040.10-11, the FDA’s regulation on laser and light based devices, requires the provision of service information to anyone who requests it. One option is to require your seller to provide this service information. This way you can furnish it to your technician or service organization of choice, and you are ensured service pursuant to US law. Another option is to have the seller provide you with contact information to the technician or company they use to service their own lasers. A third option is to find a technician or company prior to purchase, and have them guide you on what they are capable of servicing, and learn your expected costs. You may also find a company that possesses or is willing to request service information for your preferred laser, but this should be done before purchase. The final option is to request the information yourself, and your success would be determined by your persistence.

The ideal purchase to service cost ratio is less than 10% of retail annually. If you run a large operation, your p/s cost ratio should drop to around 5%. If you are paying more, you should reconsider your service provider. If you are in pre-purchase, then you should take this into account when considering the previous paragraph. Full service agreements will generally cost anywhere from 7%-15% of retail cost, and should be strongly considered as the best option when buying used. Believe me, it is much easier to add $10,000 or so to a $30,000-$75,000 purchase (the average cost of used lasers) than it is to be surprised by a $15,000 bill for repair just months after you purchase a used laser.

In the End…

It all comes down to knowing what you want, what you should pay, who you should buy it from, who should service your new investment, and what your long term investment should be. Know who the industry leaders are, but don’t succumb to mere marketing. There are various resources for helping make this assessment- use every resource at your disposal. Be objective, and remember that technically, any two like lasers are equal. The weak points of one like laser will likely be the weak points of the other. When faced with common misconceptions like “this laser is low in power,” think about the physics, and the law. Though it is perfectly legal for a manufacturer to label a laser as capable of putting out up to 20% less power as actual output, it would render the unit impossible to calibrate to any legal standard. In other words, if your laser is labeled as a 100J laser, and puts out a max of 80J brand new, degradation would take it out of tolerance in no time. No technician calibrates a unit to the lower limit, and units are regularly just outside of the lower limit we DO calibrate them to (usually around 5%). So if any Yag laser set to 50J/cm2 with a 10mm hand piece should read around 39W on an external power meter with slight variations due to the physical properties of the optics, hand pieces, and lenses.

About: Mickey A. Couvertier CBET, CLRT, is a frequent contributor to the Medical Spa MD Forums. He is a former US Army Biomedical Engineer and is President and Senior Technician at CRC Biomedical Services. He is certified by the Association for the Advancement of Medical Instrumentation as a Certified Biomedical Equipment Technician and by the National Council on Laser Excellence as a Certified Laser Repair Technician. You can learn more about Mr. Couvertier and his company at crcbiomedical.com

Submit a guest post and be heard

Reader Comments (17)

My reps are always beating me up for looking at used IPLs since, of course, they don't get any commissions... The real thing that they beat me up with is the fact that the coverage isn't there... I'm curious to understand how people make the switch, and when buying new (if ever) might actually be the way to go.

First of all, commission may not be why they beat you up over it. They may actually be convinced they are doing you a favor. With that said, nobody should be looking at used IPL's.

Buying new, I believe, is the way to go at least once in the lifetime of any laser owner/operator who can. The vast majority of MedSpas, however, are pretty modest operations. Furthermore, buying new just ensures you get the latest hardware AND software- it doesn't ensure you are getting a better device, nor better service. In fact- OEM technicians may be degrading the quality of your laser because they are complacent, underpaid, sloppy, and careless (please don't be offended if you are a GOOD OEM technician and you read this! YOU KNOW the majority are not as good as some third parties). This is actually the truth for the majority of ANY type of technician in nearly any field.

Purchasing a used laser (the only reason you would want an IPL is if you can't afford a laser... there aren't many IPLs that can do much a laser can't do better) from the right vendor at the right price with the right service contingencies in place is the best thing anybody can do. I say that matter of factly because it is financially, technically, and ethically rational. Of course we want to keep manufacturers in business- but they should be forced to impress us, and EARN our trust, and clientele. Laser manufacturers are amongst the most blatantly non-compliant companies in the US. The one specific law which governs their existence is trash to them. The only way we can ensure patient and consumer safety and fairness is by allowing capitalism to work. These regulations break the monopoly on service. Purchasing used, and using third parties improves the OEM because it puts them in competition with their own devices. Manufacturers need to impress us, allow us to learn their devices both clinically and technically, and allow us to challenge them to make something better, safer, more efficient, more cost effective... etc etc.

It's tough enough to buy a used car where there are many people who understand cars to help you and cars cost less than a laser device.

There are too few who can help you with a laser. You pays your nickel and takes your chances.

01.12 | Unregistered Commenterlefty2g

I think there is a question of basic fairness here. Not servicing of obstructing the servicing of lasers on the used market by laser manufacturers probably wouldn't stand up in court. Car companies can't do it. If a car company goes out of business they have to make spare parts available for 10 years. A laser costs alot more than a car. How do these laser companies get away with this? It is an anticompetitive practice that likely wouldn't stand up in court if challenged.

04.17 | Unregistered Commentergoodsport

Goodsport,

You are right- this is something that wouldn't stand up in court. The problem is nobody challenges the manufacturers. That's it. If noone challenges a manufacturer, never brings regulation into question, and never requires enforcement by the government then they will continue to fly under the radar.

The real problem is with the physicians and their schedules. It becomes a question of what do I do, close my doors and wait to have my day in court years from now or pay the tab and just absorb the anger.
I was at a conference once and a speaker , also an MD described the situation perfectly. The laser company takes advantage of the doctor before the sale, during and after ownership.

Interesting thing is, my buddy had 12 industrial lasers for cutting electronic chips. He had an independent service man come and getting parts etc was never a problem.
It seems whan " medicine" is involved all the rules change.

04.27 | Unregistered Commentergm

Industrial lasers are governed by the same rules and regulations as medical lasers. The problem is enforcement. There are no rules or laws obligating a manufacturer to provide parts, but there are regulations requiring them to make service information available, and if their service information requires software, training, or replacement of parts to ensure safety and proper power output delivery- then it is bound by the same service information requirements.

If you do a search online for a warning letter written to an industrial laser manufacturer called Mundt and Associates, you will see exactly what the FDA requires as far as information. The problem is they applied this warning letter to this one company, and have not used the same enforcement on ANY of the medical laser manufacturers. Once there is regular enforcement, the used laser service field will improve... but consumers need to unite, and though doctors may feel they don't have time, they ARE consumers in this context.

You can only be "taken advantage of" IF you do not know enough about the device you are purchasing. Proper schooling should take care care of that but it DOES NOT EXIST. Used lasers are sold to those who are under financed and expect to start up on a shoestring. That's IMPOSSIBLE (that's a good title for a song).

Most "laser techs" are not legal to begin with. They were not properly schooled, in my opinion, because their teachers were not properly schooled. A few hours of instruction can NOT make a good tech. I believe operators of these devices know so little about their gadgets that it is easy to fool them, consequently, they are not used properly. There is more at stake here than learning to use a computer. This is Hi-Tech stuff. I understand many people do not know , or care to know, the workings of an auto, however, many teen agers can tear a car apart and put it together again but can not do this to a laser. Lasers are used in WAR to KILL people. They are serious devices that have BLINDED and HURT people as was said here on these posts before. They are not toys to be fooled around with by undertrained operators. Purchasers of cosmetic lasers can be "scammed" very easily as is obvious here by the question asked by owners and potential buyers of these devices.

There is responsibility to the operator when you drive as is the case when a "techie" picks up a laser wand. Nobody is enforcing the laws that already exist except the lawyers doing the suing.

04.29 | Unregistered Commenterlefty2g

Lefty2g, you are certainly a character. It is unfortunate that your prolific criticism of others, anonymity, bitter tone, and failure to cite any laws, regulations, or standards when prosecuting others all equal a lack of credibility. At the risk of throwing the pearls to the pigs, I will elaborate just a tiny bit:

"You can only be "taken advantage of" IF you do not know enough about the device you are purchasing"
- This is not true. I have seen many well trained, well schooled, and buyers who know the equipment well be taken advantage of by someone who knows nearly nothing about lasers. This claim can be substantiated by searching the various medical device outlets available online and reading customer reviews.

"Proper schooling should take care care of that but it DOES NOT EXIST."
-Not true. Read my previous statement. If anyone doubts proper schooling is available, please contact me with the equipment you need training on, and I will provide a list of individuals, schools, or other form of schooling available.

"Used lasers are sold to those who are under financed and expect to start up on a shoestring"
-Again, not true. Many large medical spa chains often purchase used lasers in bulk. They buy them from companies that offer good warranties, and often sign multiannual contracts for warranty and/or annual supply of used lasers. Smaller chains do the same, and it makes it easier to get late model lasers every few years rather than having the same laser for 7-10 years.

"Most "laser techs" are not legal to begin with"
- Can you qualify this statement?

"They were not properly schooled, in my opinion, because their teachers were not properly schooled"
-And what schooling and qualifications do you have to make this statement?

"Lasers are used in WAR to KILL people."
- I saw that movie too! But seriously, there are no lasers currently used by any military that directly kill people. Currently there are lasers used to intercept missiles, and others to take down aircraft and other vehicles. The Geneva Conventions most certainly would prohibit the direct use of lasers on humans given that anything above 50 cal., I believe, is not currently allowed to be used directly against humans (must be shooting at a vehicle or structure). If you have stories of lasers used in combat, I most certainly would love to hear them. I was an Intelligence/Electronic Warfare Systems technician in the Army with a TS/SCI clearance, still have many life long friends and family in the military, and I've never heard such stories... but I'd love to hear 'em.

"Purchasers of cosmetic lasers can be "scammed" very easily as is obvious here by the question asked by owners and potential buyers of these devices."
- Yes... that's probably the purpose of this article. If you are truly concerned, why don't you contribute in a positive way- In a way where you'll be taken seriously, and your opinion respected?

"Nobody is enforcing the laws that already exist except the lawyers doing the suing"
- Lawyers don't enforce laws, and neither do lawsuits. The FDA attempts to enforce the law, but doesn't have the force of the people behind enforcement. People complain, but nobody follows the FDA's prescribed procedures for reporting. I am actively trying to change this, and I hope if you know the procedures for reporting, or have anything to report you do so, or teach others to do so rather than just complaining and criticizing.

Mickey- Good post. Thank you for setting the record straight and also thank you for your service to our country.

Yo Mickey... You are right to be exact. However, I refer to the fact that lawyers maintain they force people to say the truth as they have to be sworn in and that is how they make a living. When they sue they are using existing laws to make their point. You keep ignoring the fact that FDA states here on the web. "Lasers are PRESCRIPTION DEVICES, that can ONLY be sold to and used by those who are licensed to use them in the state where they practice.". That is a direct quote. It can not be more simple than that. What is it about that, that you do not understand?. The manufacturers broke the law initially. They are all guilty of breaking the law and enabling non medical operators to buy them when there were no places to get instruction. There are still very few places to get good instruction because opportunistic "teachers" saw a quick way to make a buck or two or three. There is absolutely NO WAY THAT YOU COULD GET PROPER INSTRUCTION and they were "teaching" others. What kind of texts were they using? What experts wrote them and where did they get instruction? Doctors have to get instruction in a hospital. These hospitals do not allow any non docs to attend classes or lectures for credit of any kind. I have been to grand rounds at the Mass Genl Hospital many times as a listener. No credits of any kind were offered and no records were kept of attendance, as is needed to get credits for continuing education, but NO HANDS ON INSTRUCTION.

LOOK IT UP HERE ON THE WEB AT FDA site. ARE YOU AFRAID TO FACE THE FACTS? I contacted FDA to find out the difference between a professional laser and an OVER THE COUNTER LASER I saw in Bloomingdales. They refuse to answer.. A laser has to be able to deliver the amount of power to do the job, however, so does the Over the Counter device have to deliver. There are no restrictions to purchase the OTC laser. Just having the money. Minors, mentally deficients who can not understand the technical stuff, and so much more that it is ridiculous. There are no classes. You can still be blinded and burnt.

I tried to get the Chief of Dermatology to start a class for electrologists for laser hair removal. He realized how important it was to be sure that anybody operating a laser had to be trained. He also realized his department could raisw some cash. This hospital was chartered by the state to give a masters degree to nurses but they were not certified to go beyond nurses. The administration decided they did not want to get involved with people who were not medically trained to begin with. I agree with them as people come from all over the world to be treated by Board Certified Docs. As a result of this it was decided NOBODY EXCEPT BOARD CERTIFIED SURGEONS and DERMATO SURGEONS were allowed to pick up a laser. A surgical resident could do this with a board certified doc there to give CRITICAL OVERSIGHT. (Critical meant the doc could criticize the student during training so that total instruction could be maintained). This is the hospital where Dr. Rox Anderson runs the photo-treatment labs. They have developed a number of treatments using lights to help patients with many types of skin problems. They NO LONGER DO ANY LASER HAIR REMOVAL OF ANY KIND. Money was returned to patients who had laser hair removal treatments.I was told why their fees were returned, however, that was in confidence. Where do you go to get treatment ? a laser tech or a plastic surgeon?

04.30 | Unregistered Commenterlefty2g

"lawyers maintain they force people to say the truth as they have to be sworn in and that is how they make a living"
- That is not the role of a lawyer, but anyhow...

"You keep ignoring the fact that FDA states here on the web. "Lasers are PRESCRIPTION DEVICES, that can ONLY be sold to and used by those who are licensed to use them in the state where they practice."
- The direct quote is: States regulate who can use lasers for various therapeutic procedures. Medical lasers are prescription devices available for sale only to licensed practitioners. You should check with your state medical licensing board to determine who qualifies as a licensed practitioner in your state.

With that said, what's this have anything to do with my statements???

"What is it about that, that you do not understand?"
-That's a silly question considering it is not coupled with a rebuttal to anything I've said... Is there a point you are trying to make???

"The manufacturers broke the law initially. They are all guilty of breaking the law and enabling non medical operators to buy them when there were no places to get instruction."
- If you have a truthful accusation or grievance against a company there is a proper way to report this to the FDA. You are very vague about every point you try to make, and I sense you are merely looking for attention.

"opportunistic "teachers" saw a quick way to make a buck or two or three" "NO WAY THAT YOU COULD GET PROPER INSTRUCTION"
- You make many unqualified statements, and still refuse to identify yourself or your qualifications.

"These hospitals do not allow any non docs to attend classes or lectures for credit of any kind."
- This is simply not true.

"LOOK IT UP HERE ON THE WEB AT FDA site. ARE YOU AFRAID TO FACE THE FACTS?"
- Look WHAT up??? You haven't contradicted ANYTHING I've said, you haven't defended any of my rebuttals against your statements, and you haven't even specified what it is you are referring to.

"I contacted FDA to find out the difference between a professional laser and an OVER THE COUNTER LASER I saw in Bloomingdales. They refuse to answer"
- I know why they refused to answer: you didn't ask a question they have the ability to answer given the information you provided. Do YOU know the difference??? I can tell you the difference. You don't need the FDA to tell you the difference.

"There are no restrictions to purchase the OTC laser."
- And herein lies your ignorance... 21 CFR 1040.10-11

The rest of your statements are either false, or embellished. Lefty2g, I really hope you do not have access to any medical equipment, weapons, heavy machinery, motor vehicles, children, or the general public. Forgive my bluntness, but I really hope you are in a room with white padded walls and a simple computer station at your disposal 0_o

Yo Mickey..... Why do you keep ignoring the FACT that FDA states only those licensed in the state where they practice can purchase a laser. you enjoy the "safety" aspect of FDA procedures but IGNORE them when it suits yourself.

VIRTUALLY ON THE DAY LASERS WERE APPROVED FOR HAIR REMOVAL, there were those who decided to TEACH the subject. They had not yet purchased a laser but were telling others they knew ALL ABOUT it and charging for the pleasure of being taught by someone who knew virtually NOTHING about them as there was no place for them to learn..

05.2 | Unregistered Commenterlefty2g

Lefty2g, first of all, you should identify yourself. It is rude, and disingenuous. You are condescending, accusatory, and terribly misinformed.

"Why do you keep ignoring the FACT that FDA states only those licensed in the state where they practice can purchase a laser. you enjoy the "safety" aspect of FDA procedures but IGNORE them when it suits yourself"

-I don't even understand where you are getting this from. What makes you think I ignore this fact? What has anything I've said have to do with the particulars of how an individual may have acquired their laser? My concern IS patient safety, and proper servicing of lasers. Illegal systems is for the state to concern themselves with. I would ask you, nonetheless, how many illegal systems have you reported? How many illegal sales have you reported? How many illegally marketed systems have you reported? How many violations at all have you reported?

You can make all the accusations you want with regard to regulations, enforcement, or what someone ignores, but you are no one to question what I say, or what I do. If you would like to have my operation questioned, please contact Margaret Hamburg, the FDA Commissioner, or Sean Boyd, the Director of the Center for Device and Radiological Health (CDRH) at the FDA. You can also contact my local field agent...well, I'm in Arlington, Virginia so that would amount to the entire FDA. The only problem with you contacting any of these people is that you will have to identify yourself to them, and we all know how you like to hide behind computer screens.

"VIRTUALLY ON THE DAY LASERS WERE APPROVED FOR HAIR REMOVAL, there were those who decided to TEACH the subject."
- That doesn't even make sense. If lasers were being approved for hair removal, there were already people performing hair removal with lasers... otherwise what clinical information would the FDA reference when approving said devices??? Furthermore, the ASLMS has always been a group of doctors and other health professionals who INNOVATE medical procedures using lasers. Dr. Leon Goldman, one of the founders of the ASLMS, was the first physician to use lasers in surgery- if he was the first, how were lasers approved for surgery before he used them in surgery??? Again- you can make all the accusations you want, but if your condescension and judgment don't fit within the context of reality, then you are just making foolish statements.

"They had not yet purchased a laser but were telling others they knew ALL ABOUT it and charging for the pleasure of being taught by someone who knew virtually NOTHING about them as there was no place for them to learn."

- You seem very disgruntled. I sincerely hope you're retired and don't have access to any patients...

Does anyone here buy used lasers? If so, who repairs them?

08.15 | Unregistered CommenterRaika

We have contracted Mickey Couvertier for a few laser repairs in the past with no problems. Unfortunately, our most recent business transaction has turned out to be extremely unpleasant and unprofessional. We sent our Laser hand piece to him for repair, along with a money order for several thousand dollars as per his request. After waiting more than two weeks and not hearing back from Mickey, we tried contacting him for a status update. We tried reaching him via his email and his phone numbers. He did not respond to any of our messages for days and all of our email messages to him bounced back as undeliverable. After numerous failed attempts, we finally heard back from him claiming that he has been in some sort of financial trouble, HAS NOT AND CAN NOT pay the third party for our hand piece repair and is unable to return our handpiece to us until he raises funds to pay the third party technician. Yes, we got screwed by CRC Biomedical. Their website, email and phone number are basically non-responsive. We have lost our laser hand piece and the several thousand dollars of repair money we gave him.

Sadly, this problem has turned into a fraud issue which will have to be resolved by legal means. It is a shame for all of the parties involved to lose business and revenue because of this.

10.9 | Unregistered Commenterray

I am looking for the laws governing who can use laser and IPL equipment for NY. Can you help to find which site answers this question?

PostPost a New Comment

Enter your information below to add a new comment.
Author Email (optional):
Author URL (optional):
Post:
 
Some HTML allowed: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <em> <i> <strike> <strong>

Join Medical Spa MD

captcha
MEDICAL SPA MD
Medical Spa MD

A community of dermatologists, plastic surgeons, laser clinics, & skin clinics world wide.

Medical Spa MD is a world-wide community of physicians and clinicians practicing cosmetic medicine. Please read our Terms of Service, Advertising Terms and Privacy Policy.

Copyright © 2011. All rights reserved.

LEGAL NOTICE & TERMS OF SERVICE