Medical Spa MD is a community of more than 12k plastic surgeons, dermatologists, & aesthetic physicians practicing cosmetic medicine. FREE Medical Spa Info for Clinicians

About   |   Advertise   |   Press   |   Contact

Sponsors, Advertisers & Friends

Medical Spa RX Group Buy Program.

Waiting Room Video DVD Marketing

The very best bang for your buck cosmetic marketing!
Watch demo Frontdesk waiting room videos and DVDs.

Medical Spa Training Manuals

Medical spa & laser clinic staff training manuals.

2nd MD
2nd MD - Boarded US physicians work from anywhere.
Medical Justice
Relentlessly protecting physicians from frivolous lawsuits.

Medical Fusion nonclinical conference

Medical Fusion, the non-clinincal medical conference.

ExpedMed CME

ExpedMed - Adventure & Wilderness Medicine CME

More control of your income, career, and lifestyle as a physician.
Read our terms
Newest Comments
Medical Spa Classifieds
Medical Spa Jobs

Medical Spa MD is a world-wide physician community for clinicians in skin clinics, laser centers and medspas with thousands of physician members around the world. By using this site you agree to our terms of service and fine print.

« The (Generally) Lame State Of Medical Center Press Releases | Main | DIY Botox Injections »
Tuesday
May182010

Micro Needling: Collagen Induction Therapy

Collagen Induction Therapy & Micro-Needling

We used to offer Collagen Induction Therapy (CIT or Microneedling) way back in 2002 or so.

Patient reaction was mixed and we quickly learned that friends and family were best left in the waiting rooms since the actual treatment appears quite barbaric and medeval. The needles are bound to a wheel and since the don't go straight in and out they 'pull' on the dermis and sometimes have bits of flesh on them. Then there's the blood. It stops quickly but it can appear nasty.

ABBIE TRAYLER-SMITH

CIT has been around for a while now so it's hardly something new (as medical spa or nonsurgical cosmetic treatments go), but it's possible that it has been gaining use. Perhaps there's demand to start a Collagen Induction Therapy user group on Medical Spa MD like those for Fractional CO2 lasers or Lumenis ActiveFX and DeepFX.

If you're and active CIT proponant or detractor please let us know here or start a user group if there's enough interest.

Precisely what is Collagen Induction Therapy & Micro-Needling?

A treatment solution works with a small portable product called a derma roller which is lined many different teeny tightly spaced needles. When the item moves across the epidermis, all the fine needles make tiny holes allegedly without damaging the skin. In spite of this, it has a word of caution that you can draw blood and that using a topical anesthetic is preferred based on the length of the particular needles together with the amount of force applied. The outcomes of just one survey cautions that top quality devices need to be employed, as inferior instruments could leave bits of shards of needles inside the dermis.

The reasoning behind micro needling is just like plenty of various nonsurgical collagen creating procedures that try to cause managed harm under your dermal area, as a consequence inducing one's body to create collagenin the treated area. That face produces more skin reacting to this injury, minimizing the appearance of marks, stretch marks, along with fine wrinkles.

CIT may be distressing when too much pressure is used, even if quite a few individuals identify a procedure as being only "mildly awkward". The particular items will be offered utilizing numerous needle measures, which may always have an affect on the person's satisfaction. Additionally, various medical doctors give anesthetic before each treatment.

Amongst most of the micro-needling's promises are usually repair for everything from striae and keloids, to creases and serious hair loss. It can be likewise stated for being useful for dramatically boosting assimilation of utilized skin formulations and elimination of lumpy and bumpy skin.

Still, there seem to have been a couple medical research demonstrating micro needling as potent in the treatment of scars. On the flip side, We've viewed Television interviews using doctors which have explained that the genuine benefit lies in micro-needlings mechanical exfoliation actions in that skin.

Micro-needling is offered as more than a single treatments in certain physicians and plastic surgeons clinics.

Reader Comments (13)

I know looks like something we will see on Saw 14. He comes at you with a microneedler. Can you get away? LOL

CIT and needling has been out for quite sometimes. If it is as good as it claims, most clinics would be offering it by now. Certainly some do as it is one of many options available for helping so many types of skin conditions. But if you are looking to use it for treating acne scars, you will be very disappointed. It ks just not very effective in treating moderate to deep scars. If you study the science behind it, there is nothing revolutionary about how it works. It mechanically punctures needle size holes, thousands of them in one session, to induce your skin to repair the surrounding tissue. You are relying on human hands to make sure they apply even pressure to each part of your face whereas A laser vaporizes much much more 'holes', in a pattern and depth precisely controlled by a computer. There is huge difference in how our body respond to vaporization of columns of skin and just mechanically puncturing them. These tiny lasers burn holes much much smaller than the diameter of the needle. If you are not careful with needling, you can actually create more scars. Of course not being careful with laser will produce similar results, but the margin of error is much higher for needling. Fraxel and lasers has been out for a long time and it is still the gold standard for treating scars. There is no cure-all to acne scars, it is a very difficult condition to improve. It usually takes many sessions and combination of methods such as lasers, surgical procedures - but all of which will yield a much better result than needling will ever accomplish. I encourage people to ask as many professional as possible before thinking it is a cure-all. There is no such thing. Just study the science there is nothing magical about it.

05.21 | Unregistered CommenterRobertSt

I could not disagree more!!! The science is there to back this procedure and it is biopsy proven. Anyone can go to: pubmed.gov for a good overview that seems to be less biased that anyone selling the rollers or the treatment itself. I have been doing C.I.T. procedures for over 1 yr at our clinic with incredible results. Personally, I had tried fillers, resurfacing treatments, and laser-based collagen treatments with little to no improvement of my terrible peri-oral lip lines. Finally, about 8 to 9 months following my first Micro-needling Treatment I noticed the lines were beginning to soften. Now, after 6 treatments over the past 1.5yrs, they are mostly gone! My skin continues to improve overall as time goes by.
It is my belief that other clinics are not doing this simple & cost-effective procedure because they have $200,000 to $350,000 lasers to pay for. Of course they aren't going to fill that treatment chair with a $200 to $500 procedure even if it is better and safer for the patient because Medical Aesthetics is a very greedy business. That's the awful truth!!!
Sincerely, Donette Smith
alternativesomaha.com

Let me ask this. Is CIT regulated state to state? Meaning who can do this treatment, RN's, docs, esthetician, or trained "lay person." Also is it considered "practicing medicine." I am looking to round out my treatment menu with things that do not require a doctor's consult, so I can "give" walk in's some type of treatment to hook them. We have a consult day once or twice a week for the treatments that IL requires a physician/patient relationship.

Donette Smith,

Here in Asia, the cost for a full-course of CIT, 5 sessions, costs about $2,000 to $3,000 USD. In line with your $200 to $500 per procedure. But a package of similar sessions of Erbium or CO2 Fraxel costs about the same if not cheaper here. Erbiums Fraxels now cost about $500 - $1000 USD for package of 4 and I've found Fraxel CO2 to cost $300 - $500 each.

Almost any esthetician or trained medical spa person can do CIT - charging $2000, making mostly profits. How are you accusing docs of gouging here when it actually cost LESS to do lasering here than CIT?? On the contrary, I can accuse med spa with their get-rich scheme of trying to gouge the consumers with these called 'professional needling'. Nobody needs any skills for needling, you can purchase yourself at home and do it alot cheaper than your $200 - $500 per session. You have no overhead, whereas a MD has to pay for his $100,000 USD machine, but right now, the market is very competitive that is why MD here in Asia can charge $300 USD per session and still be competitive. So who is gouging who here? One can make the same accusation you are - CIT is a golden egg for alot of med spas. Of course you would say it works, you have every economic interest to do so. You get to keep most of your profit while the MD here in Asia, most of the money goes to pay off his machine and his 8 year degree. But because of volume, he can do it as cheap if not cheaper than needling and still make a profit. But lets not talk about economics here, it is the results that count!!

I've done CIT (5 times) with zero results. If you actually gotten results with needling, you would've gotten much better results with lasering. On the other hand, if you didn't get results with latest Fraxel, you wouldn't have gotten any with needling.

Yes, do search the internet, almost nobody is seriously talking about CIT.

06.9 | Unregistered CommenterRobertSt

Also for every pubmed article you find about needling, you can find 10,000 more peer review articles that will pass mustard. Don't cite me murky, abstract articles done by some unknown MD in South Africa about the theoretical absorption rate of creams after CIT. Or the same grainy CIT before/pictures that has been peddled by the CIT companies for ages. CIT has been out for almost a decade now for crying out loud. It seems the only one peddling them are the medspas and the needling companies. And they are sure talking alot of so little technology. It is so cheap to make these needles, the needling companies and medspa are cashing in, buying these needles for $10-$50 bucks and charging $200 - $500 for 'professional needling'. Give me a freaking break!! Just google any lasers on here: Smartxide, Repair, Mixto - you will find millions of articles and abstracts with specific results. Of course it its not a cure all for acne scars, nothing iis!! But lets be real here. CIT is primitive and it doesn't work.

06.9 | Unregistered CommenterRobertSt

I've done more than a thousand dermarolling and fractional laser resurfacing procedures for many indications including acne scars and wrinkles. Both have their roles. Ablative fractional lasers have a longer downtime and higher risk of hyperpigmentation, but can bring about better clinical outcome in certain patients. Ablative fractional lasers, however, cannot be used on ethnic patients with the same degree of intensity as in Fitzpatrick 1 and 2. On the otherhand, dermarolling can be done quite aggressively on ethinic skin with much lower risk for PIH. This is why fractional laser and dermarolling are often done together for synergy on ethinic patients.
Robert, you are misled about a few things.
1. Laser can be programmed to penetrate precise depth? Hydration status and competing chromophore variy quite a lot even on the same patient at different times, not to mention great variability between patients and seaons, etc. These affect ablation depth significantly. This is why you need a doctor, not a technitian to assess and adjust parameters for individual patients at the time of treatment. If think that 130mJ will give you 1mm depth penetration in all patients, you are not a very skilled doctor. Dermarolling, on the other hand, assuming that you are applying enoguh pressure penetration depth is pretty much set to needle length.
2. Fractional laser creates smaller holes? Size of holes(pixel) varies depending on pulse duration and fluence. At higher power setting, pixel size increase quite a bit. And we are only talking about direct MTZ (non-ablative) or ablative zone. There is large thermal coagulation/carbonization area around alblation site. This typically (at the setting used to treat moderate to severa acne scars and with ER:YAG, which is the cleanest ablative laser) is greater diamter than dermaroller needle. As a matter of fact, dermaroller does not actually create holes that you can see and measure. The holes typically collapse once needle is removed.

If dermarooling is pretty much only thing that works for fibrotic burn scars. So the bottomline is that dermaroller and fractional laser cannot replace one another, because each has their own unique role.
Inexperience can lead to unfortunate misunderstanding/bias, keep an open mind. :)

06.9 | Unregistered CommenterMS

Ive been work also in clinic and i know how to hadled collagen treatment it is not easy work but you need to pay attention in doing this work.

04.6 | Unregistered Commenterangelle

Alternatively, recent clinical trials have shown that percutaneous collagen induction therapy is safe for the treatment of wrinkles and scars and smoothing of skin without the risk of depigmentation.

12.13 | Unregistered CommenterCassy

I find it UNBELIEVABLE that some of you are even willing to try this procedure and justify your actions by calling it "nonsurgical". Who do you think you/re kidding? You PUNCTURE the skin multiple times, you tell us there can be skin on the needles, you draw blood etc.. Maybe you are right as it sounds like "BUTCHERY", therefore, perhaps you do not need a license. Maybe it is ASSAULT. Just because clients want it does NOT mean you should do it. Dissuading a client from doing it makes you more of a professional otherwise I think it is QUACKERY as are many procedures I have seen described here by people who should NEVER have been sold a laser by a sales person who should never have sold it to them as FDA states here...Lasers are PRESCRIPTION DEVICES that can ONLY BE SOLD TO those who are licensed to use them in the state where they practice. That is clear and succinct. Sooner or later it will hit the fan.

I find it more surprising that clients are willing to pay you for TORTURE. You mention PAIN and medication to reduce it. Are these clients MASOCHISTS or are the technicians (I do not know what to call them) SADISTS who found an additional way to make a buck?

We tend to think of surgery as being done in an operating room with sterile instruments and doctors in sterile garments. Just because you call it "nonsurgical" does not make it so. You are making MULTIPLE OPENINGS in the skin where bacteria can get in. Sooner of later it will happen. Even under the best controlled conditions, all surgeons are concerned with the possibility of infection as it KILLS AND SCARS. Most surgeons give the patient antibiotics BEFORE surgery to kill bacteria before the procedure begins. The skin is SCRUBBED CLEAN with strong chemicals that stain the skin but kills bacteria, so that the instruments do not "push" surface bacteria into the field. There is NO WAY YOU CAN CONTINUE THIS WITHOUT ULTIMATELY CAUSING SOMEONE TO NEED A FACE TRANSPLANT DUE TO "FLESH EATING BACTERIA". What do you do to prevent that?

Whatever your answer, it proves you do not understand what you are doing, or you know and block it out because of the MONEY, plus the patient was not told in advance about the risks involved, and you are attempting to "practice medicine without a license". Maybe you get away with it by saying, "This is not medicine as WHAT DOCTOR IN HIS RIGHT MIND WOULD EVER DO THIS IN THIS MANNER to his patient?" The rebuttal might be,"You are correct and you are not a doctor". A signed RELEASE is not adequate because..... if the patient does not comprehend what they signed ..it is NOT VALID. No insurance company will insure you for this unless you are a licensed doctor.

As I read the comments and questions submitted here it strikes me that many of the procedures being described might have been invented by a doctor, however, how many of them are now part of the list of procedures he now does as part of the list of procedures he routinely does? Many trials are really EXPERIMENTS that never succeed for whatever reasons.
Did it ever occur to anyone here that EVERY PROCEDURE IS AN EXPERIMENT? I say that because....No matter how many people had a particular procedure with minimal "side effects"... you have NO idea as to how the next client will respond. YOU MAY NOT KILL A PATIENT, HOWEVER, THE OPERASTOR WHO DID WAS NOT AWARE THAST IT COULD EVEN HAPPEN.
Patients come in who do not know they have diabetes. This disease makes them particularly susceptible to infection. This can happen at any age, consequently, puts the opera tor at additional RISK. There are so many pitfalls for both operator and client that they are too numerous to list here. I hope more clients do not have serious problems.

FDA has posted here on their site.... Reported laser hair removal side effects include 2 deaths, seizures, coma, cardiac arrhythmias, 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree burns with hypertrophic scars, keloids, pigmentary changes (need more?) and operators call laser treatments "nonsurgical". Who is kidding who?

12.14 | Unregistered Commenterlefty2g

I had this procedure today. I can't believe the doctor failed to tell me that to have a very good result, I have to do this procedure like 3 times. I'm actually scared to do it again. Okay, maybe I'm just a coward but after seeing the hematoma in my nosebridge and the redness of my face it's not appealing for me and it's obviously not inviting me to do it again.
Plus, to call this a non-invasive procedure is something I just can't agree. Haha! The entire time I'm having the procedure I was thinking, how can this be called non-invasive when it's obviously invading my epidermis!
I guess I'm just a coward. Haha!

05.18 | Unregistered CommenterAnon

My 2 cents on lefty's comments... I'm not sure why such an outrage on using dermaroller, multiple skin punctures etc. It reminds me of some physicians who are very vocal on the subject of laser use by non-physicians, specifically tattoo removal.
I would be much obliged if you could point me to one physician who is capable of pretty much similar procedure....making tattoo. Why the same physicians do not demand exclusivity on making tattoo? It penetrates the same barrier, it may cause infection and, more importantly, it is aesthetically almost uncorrectable ...
I'm not interested in tattoo removal or dermaroller use. Just trying to educate myself when the logic and fairness fail to make the case.

@Marek Kacki, MD,
You're quite correct regarding your question regarding tattoos, it's essentially the same thing and your point is well taken. As for Lefty's comment you should be aware that he is not a physician. I'll leave it to others to decide if his comments have any credibility in this regard.

PostPost a New Comment

Enter your information below to add a new comment.
Author Email (optional):
Author URL (optional):
Post:
 
Some HTML allowed: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <em> <i> <strike> <strong>

Join Medical Spa MD

captcha

Medical Spa MD is a world-wide community of physicians and clinicians practicing cosmetic medicine. Please read our Terms of Service, Advertising Terms and Privacy Policy.

Copyright © 2011. All rights reserved.

LEGAL NOTICE & TERMS OF SERVICE