Pricing Dermal Fillers: Radiesse, Sculptra, Belotero, Juvederm, Kybella...

Should I switch to a new filler? Can I increase my profits or decrease my cost? Fillers are a must-have in any cosmetic practice, so how do you make sense of the options?

You've got to have them since they're one of the primary reasons you're generating new patients AND they keep those patients coming back every month or two. Many generalized (includes surgical treatments) generate 40% of their income from injectables and others (nonsurgical) can turn these needles into wildly profitable practices. But you can also spin your wheels just bumping along the barely-breaking-even line by either under-pricing or over-paying. So what's the current state of cost/price in the market?

In a market report released in 2015, according to Research and Markets, dermal fillers average price (in the US at least) are estimated around $400-$1500 per treatment (patient cost). That's quite a range. So what's going on here? It's a busy and (increasingly) confusing market but here are some stats/thoughts on some of the market leaders.

RADIESSE

Radiesse is primarily around the patient's mouth (specifically correcting nasolabial folds but also lips) but is also commonly used to increase volume in hands (where you can end up using a lot of it, increasing the cost/price). Typical usage is between a half to 2 or more syringes. Like with other facial fillers, the effects on Radiesse on the body will take for as long as 10-12 months. An average cost for a Radiesse treatment is around $900, with a range of $400-$1200. Most procedures are on the chin and cheeks.

Patient satisfaction seems to be around 83%. Adverse reactions include ashes, loss of volume swelling, and lumping. These, as with others, are generally attributable to poor technique or over-treatment.

BELOTERO

Similar to Radiesse, Belotero targets the nasolabial folds and the lines around the mouth. Although, there are some physicians that have used it to target dark circles and lines under the eyes.

It is possible to get multiple treatments for Belotero as well. The filler lasts around to 6 months, maybe up to a year. Although some patients may have shorter filler effects. The treatment costs around $625.00, with a range of $200-$1350.

Patient reviews (from a well known patient site) tended to be slightly higher than Radiesse which is interesting but not terribly informative. It worked well for patients who had their under eye lines treated, on their lip lines, crows' feet, tear troughs, and glabellar area. Complaints include bruising, swelling, and bumpiness.

SCULPTRA

Sculptra is a liquid based injectable that also targets the above mentioned treatments for lines. The use for the filler has been used for those who have lost weight and want to treat lines.

Primary treatment areas for Sculptra are temples and jowls and there's some increase in the after-care instructions including daily 'face massage' of the treatment areas. Repeat treatments may need to be administered after four to six or four to eight weeks, depending on the patient's results from the first treatment. (Always better to under-treat and have them come back than over-treat and have them unhappy.)

Price of treatment is around $1900, with a range of $150-$3800. Selling price of Sculptra to physicians is estimated around $750-$800. According to some physicians Sculptra retains on the face for around 6 to 24 months.

Sculptra seems to hover around a 90% patient satisfaction rate. Among the reviews on one website, 21% reported lumping and adverse reactions (which seems high).

JUVEDERM

Juvederm is one of the most popular volume enhancing fillers in the market. The target areas are lips, cheeks, and lines and wrinkles. A technique to administering the filler on the cheek is creating circles around the target area (similar to a Venn Diagram). Aside from the cheeks, lips are also a popular treatment region.

Juvederm products have a selling price of around $350-$1000. Cost of treatment is around $550, ranging from $250-$990. Treatment lasts from 6 to 12 months.

In looking into patient feedback, only Juvederm received more than 90% positive rate from patients across different review websites. Many are also doing returning treatments after their results. Common complaints for the filler are sagging and swelling under eyes and lips.

KYBELLA

We thought we'd take a look at something outside of fillers with Kybella since it's main usage is to remove the fat under the chin. Multiple treatments are done to achieve the expected result. Like with all the treatments here, Kybella can be done quickly. In administering Kybella, the box comes with a temporary tattoo guide which should be stuck under the chin. (We don't have personal experience with this so would appreciate ayone's thoughts from the community.)

Physicians buy a vial of Kybella at around $600. As for prices, Kybella has a range of $600-$2500 for a treatment, with an average of $1375.

The treatment is well received with an 87% positive rating on one website. Swelling is normal with the treatment after a few days. The treatment had boosted patient self-esteem. Negative reviews are few so far, some had mentioned they saw no change prior to treatment and should have opted Liposuction over injections.

Read the sister post on pricing of Botox, Xeomin & Dysport.

Pricing & Costs

There are a lot of physicians who enter the market at the low end of pricing in order to attract new patients (very successfully since this is essentially a commodity now) but if your prices don't include enough just to break-even, you’re heading for trouble. Medical businesses are expensive to run and it's more true than ever that a dollar saved is a dollar earned. All vendors are not all pricing fillers the same and it can cost you literally thousands of dollars a month right off the top-line profit if you're not getting the best deal from your local pharmacy or the manufacturer. Depending upon where you are in the world you might want to do a little research and find out if you can get a better deal.

Warning: Everyone is getting bombarded with solicitations from companies in China promising the lowest cost. Do NOT buy any drugs or pharmacy products from China (or South East Asia, or Africa). These countries do not have the same regulations as the US, Canada, and the EU where regulatory safeguards are in place.

Nurse Practitioner Pay In New "Medical" Spas

What's a good Nurse Practitioner pay in a new 'medical spa' that wants to offer Botox?

I get lots of individual emails looking for information about pay for PAs, NPs and MDs who are being recruited by a local medical spa. Some of these are just entering aesthetics and others are old hands.

Here's an example email that's typical from a NP who's being solicited by a day spa who's wanting to offer Botox and fillers:

Hello, I am a Nurse Practitioner from Wyoming and I am going to start doing some medical aesthetics for an established spa that up to this point has offered everything except medical aesthetics. The owner of the spa and I are having trouble figuring out a fair pay for me. The products are being ordered under my license and I will also be doing all the injections. Right now we are just starting out with Botox and Fillers. She pays her staff an hourly wage plus commission, but I have also talked with other spas that pay straight commission. Both of us are new to this and we are having a hard time finding out what other medical spas pay. Any insight on this would be helpful.

Sincerely,

Stephanie

Ok, so here's where we're going to drop some knowledge-bombs on you. (For this post I'm not going to go too deep on whether these types of setups are good ideas on their own.)

First, think about what you're asking and how you're thinking about this new business. You're counting your eggs a little before you've got any eggs.

The fact that you're asking how much you should be paid reveals a number of problems with your understaning of how this is going to work and who's going to be responsible. (This isn't uncommon at all and we're going to disucss business models at lenght in future posts.) Since you're the clinician, you're going to be responsible for everthing to do with this business with the probable exceptions of: #1, paying for stuff and #2 supplying the 'patients'.  So let's look at what you're going to be responsible for:

• Purchasing all the Botox, Restylane and Juvederm under your medical license
• Patient care
• Charting and compliance
• Clinic operations and systems
• Malpractice insurance

Since you're going to be practicing medicine, the fulcrum in this relationship is you as the clinician. It's going to be your reputation, medical licence, malpractice insurance, and your ass on the line.

I'm reminded from a line from the science fiction novel Dune in which goes something like, "He who has the ability to destroy a thing, controls that thing." Meaning, that this is effectively going to be your business, not the spas. (Note, I'm not denying that the spa could probably find someone else to do this same deal, just that it's never going to be the spas business.)

The spa will invariably take the tact that this will be an add-on to their existing business and that the 'patients' are their customers etc. This is both wrong in practice and illegal. This will be the practice of medicine and that's pretty cut and dried. You're still going to regulated, HIPPA compliant, etc. and that's it.

You're also going to need to set this up legally in your state. In most states you can't become an employee of or partner directly with a non-physician. (Not sure about how this applies to NPs so if anyone knows, please leave a comment.)

The patients are going to be yours, the responsiblity will be yours, the insurance will be yours etc., and you can't just be paid for performing medical treatments by a non-physician. All that being said, there are ways that this can be done if you're smart, and the spa owner is reasonable.

1. Set up a legal entity for yourself. (Have a real lawyer do this who has knowledge with clinicians.)
2. Make sure that the spa has a legal entity. (Different lawyer there.)
3. The agreement will be between these two entities. (There are different ways to set this up depending on state. In some cases it might be the NP's entity that is 'renting' space from the spa but there are other options. Read through the forum threads on this site for those.) The agreement should also clearly define scopes and responsibilities and what will happen if the business fails. In cases like this, the spa is often 'paid' for rent and/or 'marketing' expenses, not fee splits or referrals. A technicality maybe but an important one.

People always try to overlook the 'business fails' part of the equation but it's a necessity to outline this up front since this business will end at some point in the future, even if both parties are happy.

Since it's illegal in most states to be a clinician who is an employee of a non-physician, that becomes somewhat problematic since you can't be 'paid' in the normal way. I would also suggest that all monies go though your legal entity before being distributed. In effect, you take all payments, not the spa. Headache yes but medicine in the US is the most highly regulated and litigious market there is. Don't sit around on your thumbs with this.

If you look at what you're going to be required to do, the conversation with the spa should be much clearer and should help the negotiations. If the spa owner refuses to understand how this should be set up, don't do any deal. You can't negotiate in good faith with someone who is willing to put you at risk right at the start.

About your Pay?

The real question is, "how much money are you going to make?". 

Business 'partners' always run into personal conflict when; they don't make any money, or.. they make a lot of money. I would suggest that you make sure that you go into this with your eyes open and the spa owner does the same. If you can't resolve the above issues then the money won't matter.

Comments welcome.

Add Allergan's Brilliant Distinctions Program To Your Website's Social Media Buttons

What is the Allergan Brilliant Distinctions Program?

Brilliant Distinctions (BD) is a frequent user program by Allergan for their products of Botox, Juvederm, Latisse and their skin care line. This program gives the patients coupons and rebates. Many practices in the US who inject Botox have the opportunity to join this program. Your Botox/Allergan representative would have more information. In my location, Brilliant Distinctions is well utilized.

New Patients look for Brilliant Distinctions

I have also found that when experienced Botox and Juvederm patients move to my area, they sometimes come armed with Brilliant Distinction discounts which they would like to use. They have called my office asking whether we take Brilliant Distinctions  These patients usually come from different states, and the transition process is painless. We just need their name, zip code, and birthdate. With that information, the patients can use their points and earn new ones at our practice. With any patients who have somehow created multiple accounts, a quick call to the toll free hotline provided by Brilliant Distinctions usually solves the problem.

Creation of the Brilliant Distinctions Button 

I thought it would be useful to create a button that goes along with some of our social media buttons. I presented the idea to Allergan, and they actually helped me create some of their logos that matched the size of frequently used social media "buttons." By buttons, I mean those icon or logos that represent Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc. I have had links from my website before to Brilliant Distinctions, but they were big clunky pictures, and I've never matched it up on the page with the Facebook or Twitter logos. I asked Allergan about the idea and they sent me basic BD logos to work with. I spent some time trying to make these logos match, and I've shown them to Allergan.  Allergan has a section on their website for physicians which has logos to use on their websites, but when I contacted them, they didn't have ones of this design. I thought I'd share these logos with you so you can put them on your websites yourself or have your trusty webmaster do it if you like the idea.

Please feel free to copy the Brilliant Distinctions Buttons (ie. Right click/save-as). 

I've seen many beautiful websites out there with beautiful social media buttons. Now you can also add a matching BD logo to the collection.

I made a website displaying the logos that Allergan and I tweaked to match most common social media buttons which are already used on many plastic surgery, dermatology, and aesthetic websites.

Top 5 Medical Spa Treatments In 2011

The top nonsurgical treatments in 2011?

1. Botox: 5.7 million treatments (up 5% from 2010)
2. Filler Injections (Juvederm, Restylane, Perlane, etc) 1.9 million treatments (up 5% from 2010)
3. Laser Hair Removal: 1.1 million (up 15% from 2010)
4. Chemical Peels: 1.1 million (down 3% from 2010)
5. Microderm: 900,000 (up 9% from 2010)

Source: American Society of Plastic Surgeons

Can Nurse Practitioners Offer Botox?

Guest Post By Carolyn Buppert, NP, JD

Can Nurse Practitioners offer Botox, Restylane, Juvederm and other cosmetic treatments on their own?

The answer to this question is going to be state-specific. Here are the steps to follow:

1. Read your state's Nurse Practice Act section on scope of practice for nurse practitioners to answer these questions: What acts require physician collaboration or supervision? How is collaboration or supervision defined? (Boards of Nursing in the United States: State-by-State Web Links)
    
2. Go to your state's Board of Medicine Websites and search for any policies on provision of botulinum toxin (Botox®). Note that botulinum toxin is a prescription medication, so a prescription or order for the medication must be written and someone must administer the drug. If your state has policies on botulinum toxin, note the requirements for prescription and administration. Some states consider administration of botulinum toxin a medical act, and some states consider it to be within the scope of a registered nurse. Prescribing is always a medical act.
    
3. If you live in a state that requires no physician collaboration when nurse practitioners prescribe, then as long as the Board of Medicine has no requirements with respect to botulinum toxin, you are free to proceed with your practice idea. If your state requires physician collaboration in order for nurse practitioners to prescribe, then you'll need to line up a collaborator. In most states, the collaborator does not need be on site, but in some states, the collaborator must practice at the site with specified frequency. Follow the rules as they relate to any prescribing.

About: Carolyn Buppert, NP, JD is an attorney practicing in Bethesda, Maryland.

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Allergan Q1 Profits: Botox, Dysport, Juvederm Ultra XC

Allergan's Q1 Earnings Call: Allergan's thoughts on it's Botox and Juvederm Ultra XC growth.

First quarter sales increased year-over-year 11.2% in dollars and 6.9% in local currencies, boosted by the strong pickup in the sales of medical devices, which grew 18.4% in dollars and 13.4% in local currencies. The growth in the Medical Aesthetics businesses was even stronger outside the U.S. in all regions and across a wide range of countries, with surprisingly strong performance in Europe.

Operating performance was strong, with non-GAAP earnings per share at $0.65, marking an increase of 18.2% versus the result for Q1 of 2009, and comfortably exceeding the Q1 expectations shared with you, the investment community, of $0.57 to $0.59.

Earnings growth was driven by strong gross margin expansion, especially in the Medical Device segment. Careful spending in the selling, general administrative area, whilst we increased investment in R&D by 11.1% on a non-GAAP.

Within SG&A, we however doubled our DTC expenditures versus Q1 of 2009, which of course was the low watermark for spending when the world economy was in crisis. Our plan is to continue to invest in 2010 across our brands and into the recovery of our markets.

During the quarter, we were pleased that we continued to strengthen our R&D pipeline, supplementing our internally development programs with acquisitions and licenses. In January, we acquired Serica, a company with proprietary technology for use in tissue regeneration especially applicable to breast reconstruction, as well as the license for Ser-120 in Phase III clinical development for nocturia. Strategically, we have made good progress in building up a portfolio of urology assets.

We also furthered our aspirations to be the leader in medical aesthetics also in Asia, by reacquiring the rights to BOTOX Cosmetic in Japan and China and expanded our footprint in fast-growing emerging markets by establishing direct operations for all of our businesses in Turkey, effective from the second quarter.

After the out-licensing transaction with Bristol-Myers for neuropathic pain, we've increased our degree of R&D focus on our core specialty areas.

Now I’d like to comment on our expectations for 2010. For the full year earnings outlook, we have brought up the bottom of the EPS range by $0.02 to $3.11 and have left the top end of the range at $3.15 which at the time of the last earnings call expressly excluded the costs of any healthcare reform bill in the United States. With the increase of the Medicaid rebate, extension to managed Medicaid and expansion of eligible hospitals in the so-called 340B program, we estimate that the cost of healthcare reform in 2010 will be approximately $12 million. This is now included in our outlook.

Turning to BOTOX

Sales growth has picked up relative to trends seen across 2009, with growth versus the first quarter of 2009 at 11.3% in dollars and at 6.6% in local currencies. Sales of $331 million were only modestly lower sequentially than Q4, which is always seasonally the highest quarter of the year. Most of this increase was due to the more economically sensitive aesthetic side of the business, as the benefits of the upper-limb spasticity FDA approval in March occurred too late in the quarter to contribute to our sales results.

Outside the U.S., we enjoyed very strong double-digit increases across a wide range of countries, with surprisingly strong growth in several of the main European markets. These global markets are precisely where we are successfully dealing with multiple competitors.

It would therefore seem that the market is recovering as we can measure our market share with only a short time lag. In Europe, on the aesthetic side, we’re holding share at just under 80%, as we deal with the incursions of both Merck’s, with their Zymine and Bocatua [ph] brands and Galderma with Azzalure.

On the therapeutic side, it seems that most of ZMM’s market share gains have been at the expense of Dysport. In the U.S., BOTOX sales growth is less buoyant, as there was no base of Dysport sales in the prior year, but it is clear that the market is growing again.

We estimate that in the aesthetic market, Dysport had somewhere between 13% and 14% share in the first quarter. We'll be curious to see the lasting impact of the Dysport Love It or Leave It promotion after it terminates at the end of May.

In the therapeutic market, Dysport’s share is so far negligible, given the long history and experience of BOTOX use. In Europe and the U.S., we have recently introduced a 200-unit vial, which is useful for injectors treating large muscle groups, as well as for differentiation from competition. Regarding global market share for the fourth quarter, the last quarter for which data is available, we estimate that BOTOX held 79% share in a market growing 13% year-over-year.

Regarding the clinical program for BOTOX for chronic migraine, the clinical trial results of our PREEMPT program were published in Cephalalgia, the journal of the International Headache Society. Regarding facial aesthetics, we've experienced an even stronger rebound in sales than observed with BOTOX. Dermal filler sales grew year-over-year, a very strong 42.4% in dollars, and 34.5% in local currencies, with great growth in all operating regions of the world, with Europe again surprising on the upside.

Juvederm & Juvederm Ultra XC

In the U.S., we've seen huge growth in the JUVÉDERM line since the launch of JUVÉDERM Ultra XC, this is the lidocaine-containing product, in early February. Although we have gained some market share, it would seem that the market is responding strongly to the reduction in treatment pain experienced with this lidocaine-containing product and already a substantial share of the mix is attributable to JUVÉDERM Ultra XC.

We have just initiated print advertising for JUVÉDERM XC and have a PR campaign with TV host Dayna Devon, as our spokesperson to further drive growth. In Europe, we launched new additions to the JUVÉDERM product line, JUVÉDERM Smile at the IMCAS Conference in Paris in January and JUVÉDERM Hydrate at the Anti-Aging Conference in Monaco in March. JUVÉDERM Smile was also approved in South Africa, JUVÉDERM XC in Korea and JUVÉDERM Ultra Plus in Taiwan.

Voluma was recently launched in Brazil and also approved in Taiwan.

Based on our analysis of the world market in Q4, which we estimate grew 12%, it is clear that global market growth has accelerated since then. Our analysis also points to JUVÉDERM market share gains in all regions of the world. Beyond superior product performance characteristics, Allergan also benefits from having full product line.

At the end of the first quarter, Allergan's cash and cash net of debt positions totaled approximately $2 billion and $471 million, respectively. Allergan continued to maintain exceptional cash flow generation capabilities in the first quarter, with operating cash flow after capital expenditures of approximately $161 million, an increase of approximately $56 million over the first quarter of 2009.

Medical Spa MD: Filler Injection Tips (Restylane, Juvederm)

Restylane, Juvederm and filler injections tips for physicians running medical spas and laser clinics.

The following is from a string of emails that were circulating among some of Medical Spa MDs Members. I've edited this somewhat to make it readable and get rid of all the extraneous copies. I'm also not displaying the identity or email addresses of the physicians in this thread.

Please leave your thoughts below as a comment.

Note: Some of the comments below might be out of order from the original thread. Emails' somewhat difficult to follow as a thread but you'll get the gist.

Filler Injection Discussion & Tips: Restylane | Juevederm | Evolence

1.  When I use the "push ahead" technique, I feel that I get better "plumping" per cc of filler.  I learned this from Kevin (thanks Kevin).

 

2.  When I use the "push ahead" technique, the filler fills a few millimeters in front of the needle tip.  You need to realize this to be able to put the material exactly where you want it.  Sometimes you have to "feel" the injection because you can't "see" the plumping.

 

3.  I mix 0.1 cc of lidocaine with epinephrine with my Juvederm.  This helps with bruising (epinephrine) and when the lidocaine goes away and the Juvederm attracts water, the two effects cancel each other and there is not as much enhancement after the injection due to the hydrophilic nature of the Juvederm.

 

4.  I use Juvederm Ultra under the eye and above the lip.  I use Juvederm UltraPlus everywhere else.

 

5.  I constantly complain to my Juvederm Rep about the 0.8 cc syringes.  I use lots of Radiesse because you get almost twice as much material for the same price.  Volume, volume, volume.  Please complain to your rep, maybe we can get them to change. 

 

6.  I hear the Evolence is very good.  We will be getting trained and start using it next month.

Thanks for the filler tips.Can you explain how you get the Lido with epi mixed into the Juvederm syringe? --PD

Fluid Dispensing Connector from Braun Medical Inc (you can get from PSS)

BD 1 ml Luer-Lok Syringe

 

This syringe allows you to get very precise amount of lidocaine (swish back and forth 20 times).

 

I use this syringe to put exaclty 1 cc of saline in my Botox Bottle. When I reconstitute the Botox (this gives it full strength per unit). The chances of intravascular injection might be lower with push ahead because the material will push the vessels out of the way as you advance --  Jeff

Hi Jeff,--I agree w/ #6.  I seem to get good augmentation, less redness, swelling and bruising with Evolence.  I use it for deeper fills in cheeks, NLF, etc.  Don't use it for lips or under eyes.  I do same with Lido w/ epi.  I tend to use Juvederm in lips.  Perlane / Restylane for other areas.  I agree w/ why Allergan uses 0.8 cc syringes. I've moved away from Radiesse.  I feel that the duration is not that much longer than a good correction with the HA's.  Besides, I believe a fair amount of the volume of Radiesse is a gel carrier, thus needing touch-ups at 2-3 months.  Perhaps that's why the went to the larger syringes? -- Don

The push ahead technique also moves small blood vessels out of the way, so you may notice less ecchymosis is overall pts. -- Greg

Jeff: --"Push ahead" has a higher risk of vessel cannulation & potential for vascular effects - skin necrosis in glabella, even potential for retro-grade flow to eye (causing visual loss).  I wouldn't recommend that technique for the periorbital area.

Restylane is recommended for the tear troughs;  it's less hydrophilic than juvederm - which means less post-treatment swelling.--Tom  --  [note from Jeff:  Tom is a plastic surgeon]

I would not use push ahead around the eye, I agree with Tom's comments. It works great for NLF. I was actually taught this by a PS -- Greg

Thanks Jeff for your kind comments. However I must make a few points in regards to fillers:

1) There are some areas that one has to still do the retrograde injection either b/c the purpose was to make a straight line (eyebrow lift and vermillion border and the bow-tie (the vertical lines connecting the base of nose and the upper lip border) AND when injecting the most inner 1/3 of the tear-trough to avoid risk of filler getting into the orbital space due to its close proximity to the orbital rim.

2) On the glabellar injection, it is best to first push and pull the needle thru the space underneath to break up the tissue before actually injecting the filler both in an anterograde and retrograde pattern

3) I ONLY use the 1/2 inch needles in all my injections

4) One can inject even Radiesse and/or Perlane via an 1/2 inch 30 gage needle. Why is this noteworthy to mention?? When I work on the lips and Marrionette's lines, I ususally first build the Vermillion border with Radiesse or Perlane (I get the best "lifting outcome" with heavier filler). I push the 1/2inch needle all the way forward then slowly and steadily inject while withdrawing (retrograde method). Then I re-evaluate how much of a correction I already get of the Marrionette' line and lifting up of the lip body. My next step is to inject into the most lateral lip section (about 1 cm distance) starting at the corner (using Perlane or Restylane or Juverderm). This time I inject slowly as I push forward (anterograde). Often I ended up correcting about 50% of the marrionette's line by going after the lip's border and most lateral body. Besides, the patient loveto see that they now could see their lip body all the way to the corner and more "smiley shape". The last step is the trickiest one, I use either Radiesse or Perlane on an 1/2 inch 27 gage needle. First placing my left thumb at the patient's lower half NLF's I retract the skin upward (about 2-3cm upward) then I approach my needle in an upward (vertical) position at about one centimeter lateral and one cm below the mouth corner of that same side. Then I aim diagonally toward the corner and start injecting anterograde just 1-2 mm below the imaginary horizontal line of the mouth corner (about 0.2 cc), then I withdraw the needle and reaim straight up and inject just below the horizonal line (0.2cc) then I do it one more time aiming diagonally outward (0.2cc). What was I attempting to do?? I was laying down a new flooring along the imaginary horizontal line. After the injection, release the left thumb. You will be surprised to see the retracted portion just rest right along this new floor, thus the Marrionette'line has been corrected. This is different from the common fanning technique of using the filler to "blow up" around the Marrionette's line. If you look carefully at those company's issued photos, the area around the Marrionette's line now appeared very swollen and puffed up. It is aesthetically unpleasant. It looked like the patient was beat up below the mouth. It reduced the profile of the chin.

5) For those of you that use fillers on the highly vascularized and shallow areas such as the temporal, crow's feet, undereye area lateral to the submalar area and along the lateral border of the cheek prominence (especially in those older skinny Caucasian ladies with much excessive very thin skin) I now emulate the same technique used in the hand. I would pinch to levitate the skin itself above the bony structure, then I bolus Restylane into the empty space. Then I massage it down. This elimates the risks of injecting into the vessels and nodules.

Interesting discussion.  So Kevin, how do you account for the difference in that anterograde injection you need less filler than in retrograde injections, assuming all else being equal?

Second, I am understanding one group claims anterograde injection carries a higher risk of vessel cannulation and possible intravascular injection, while another group claims that anterograde injection "pushes away" blood vessels, thus decreasing the risk. Not sure how anterograde increases risk of intravascular injection any more than retrograde.  If you push the needle ahead, transfixing a vessel, then begin injection, you can still conceivably deposit some material intravascularly, can you not?  Am I missing something here?

I also found an interesting idea of sub q bolus technique in areas of thin skin, ie crowsfeet, etc.  Anyone else try this method? ~ Don

Tom:

I do agree with you about those risks with anterograde injection. The key is always the skills in doing it, be it retrograde or anterograde. One always has to be very carefully doing anything around the eyes. However, the anterograde techinique has been advocated some of the best known experts such as Arnold Klein, MD and Kent Remington, MD. I also believed that the filler amount used was critical. It takes much more amount to get the same result with the often taught retrograde technique compared with the anterograde one. For example, I almost never required more than one full syringe in correcting bilateral NLF's vs what was typically used ( 2 syringes) by most others. I attached the before and after of a case wherein I used Readiesse to correct her NLF's and Marrionette's lines with anterograde technique. The after photo was taken right after. You can still see some of needle marks. I used one full 1.3 cc syringe, 1/2inch 30g for the Vermillion border and 1/2inch for NLF's and Marrionette's line. Notice also there was no "puffy/swollen look" medial to the Marrionette's line often seen with retrograde and fanning technique used by most others. ~ Kevin

All interesting comments.  The only place, I use “push ahead” is in the cheeks when doing them via the intra-oral route. (Apparently Radiesse is no longer teaching this method because may practitioners couldn’t get the hang of it but it works for me.)  I might try it in the “safe” areas such as NL folds.  We use only Radiesse and Juvederm and  I find that neither filler lasts as long as advertised in “first-timers”.  I’ve also had disappointing longevity in my older patients (>65) with both types fillers despite using numerous syringes.  I’m sure this has to do with their inability to generate collagen around the filler once the carrier gel is gone.  Does anyone know the age range of patients done in the filler studies? ~ SD

I came across this old thread way down in my inbox and read it again.  I’m not sure who wrote #4 below.  It sounds interesting but I’m having a hard time visualizing it.  Do you steadily move the needle forward  toward the lip edge as you are injecting or do you hold it in place while the area fills?  I’d love to see a drawing on where you start.  ~ SD

SD: I wrote those threads. The techniques that I described were similar to what you could see watching the video instruction on www.thederm.org by Kent Remington and his colleagues (lower face injection portion) THe only thing new from my thread was when fixing the Marrionette's line, his doctor (Nowell Solish) injection upward and anterograde from the lower part toward the lip corner only one time vs what I now do is I do the same thing but with a fanning pattern where (with the skin lifted about 1-2cm upward with the other thumb) I laid down "three such "anchoring points" along an imaginary horizontal floor starting from the lip corner going laterally for about 3-5cm long. Here I used something firmer such as Radiesse or Perlane. Having done this, you would release the thumb letting the skin go back down. Often you will see the Marrionetter's line is much improved because "part of that Marrionette's line" now is positioned along the horizontal flooring that you just created. ~ Kevin

PS: It is hard for me to send over some graphic illustration but I will attempt to do this in the future

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